Don't mess with Saab!

[runrowsam]

Just had a quick tour in a friend's Saab 9-3 Viggen. 2.3 litre four cylinder with what must be an almighty turbo. He's only had it chipped and a new exhaust with a few minor adjustments, but by Christ does it go! Front wheel drive so it was a bit sketchy in the wet this evening, but once on the fly that power was just relentless! Mid range torque must be amazing, since it's only running about 250hp maximum. But 30-70 time must be unbelievable! 2nd gear, 30mph, drop your foot and it's just GONE. Anybody owned one and care to shed some light on just how they do that?!

Rock on
Sam [img]images/graemlins/thumbs.gif[/img]

[Paul-RS]

from memory "viggen" means thunderbolt or something similar.

standard out the box 30-70 its supposed to be quicker than a ferrari.

[donrs4]

This is apicture of the beast

and the corresponding press release. It "only" has 230bhp but I read on another webpage that torque is 350Nm at 2500rpm... sweet.

Press release Saab Britain

Another webpage

[bienvenum]

It was on top gear a few weeks ago, Clarkson actually liked it so it must be quite good !

[Dippy]

When I was deciding what car to have next after crashing my Impreza, the Saab 9-5 Aero was on my list. I think it has roughly the same engine as the 9-3 you're talking about.

The engine actually has overboost which raises the boost for about 10 seconds, to produce extra torque - I can't remember how much. When you consider that it's a FWD car, and of course the 9-3 is lighter, that's why it will go so well.

What you must remember is that our 4WD cars have bigger transmission losses than 2WD cars. So in the right conditions a car like that 9-3 could out-accelerate some of our cars. But that's the point. The conditions have to be dry and in a straight line.

There were 3 reasons why I rejected the 9-5 from my options:
1) I hated the seats
2) I didn't really like the interior (a matter of taste)
3) The FWD
Number 3 was the clincher. During my test drives (as you may know Saab dealers let you have the car for a day or a whole weekend), I found the torque steer to be abysmal, and in wet conditions the traction control kicks in all the time.

[markcanderson]

Hi,

Glad you liked the Saab!.. the Viggen is a 2.3 4cyl Turbo. They were developed in part by TWR (The same dodgy crew behind the numerous LeMans winning Jaguars and Arrows F1) The body kit it wears was designed by Iain Callum of Aston Martin fame.

There weren't all that many made.. and they didn't sell too well. Part of the problem was that TWR didn't really up-rate the suspension enough - so torque steer is rampant.

The good-news was that this problem plagues all 9-3s and is ultra easily solved. A company that formerly used race Saabs in the 24hour endurance and British Saloon Car championships - ABBOTT RACING MOTORSPORT, developed the VRK (Viggen Rescue Kit). This kit, consisting of a special steering rack brace, sub-frame brace, poly track control arm bushings, uprated support arm bearing kit - removes torque steer from the viggens and other 9-3 models.

One of the cool things about the Saabs.. is that they are cheap. The whole 9-3 line up is turbocharged.. and the chassis can be easily and cheaply up-rated to perform very well.

They are also immensely tunable, with a very strong, well established tuning and internet BBS scene. You'll also be surprised at how many outwardly normal looking cars are internally up-rated (must be something to do with the psyche of the Saab driver).

I know of many 9-3s and NG900 Saabs sitting on 260-270hp and nearly 400NM of torque.. and I know a few owners, that are running the 'ring in outwardly family cars (i.e. not stripped out) but suspension, braking, power up-rated in under 9 minutes :O . There is one special dutch 9-3 I know that had chipcentre build him a racing engine.. he's commuting to work in a 363hp 9-3!!!!

I also know of quite a few 9000 owners sitting on the 310hp mark with Maptun tuned engines... and a few beyond that!

In Sweden there is a road 9-3 sitting with a SQR/Trollspeed (yep the same company that built the Pikes Peek winning 4x4 9-3!!!) engine bench tested at over 600hp.

http://www.saabscene.co.uk
http://www.hirsch-performance.ch/motor_e.htm
http://www.maptun.com/index.php
http://www.abbottracing.com
http://www.chipcenter.cc/english/index.htm

[markcanderson]

here is a 30 to 100mph video of a stock 5-door viggen.

http://195.237.18.37/viggen/adrian.wmv

Right click and save as.. please

[mrts]

Oh yes. The following is a dyno result for a stock (engine wise) 9000 2.3 Full pressure turbo.

Apologies for the poor quality image!



220bhp peak (not very impressive)
285lbft+ of torque from 2000 to 3500rpm and in excess of 200lbft from 2000 to 5500rpm (limited at around 6000).

Lazy car to drive, I don't even have to bother dropping down to overtake.

[Nige_RS4]

How come your ID says 380lbft, but this Saab only has 285lbft? Anyway, a std S4 has more than that, a chipped on is approaching 390lbft [img]images/graemlins/033102ass_1_prv.gif[/img] !

I guess the Saab is more feul efficient that a big thirsty V6 though [img]images/graemlins/062802drink_prv.gif[/img]

[mrts]

How come your ID says 380lbft, but this Saab only has 285lbft? Anyway, a std S4 has more than that, a chipped on is approaching 390lbft [img]images/graemlins/033102ass_1_prv.gif[/img] !

I guess the Saab is more feul efficient that a big thirsty V6 though [img]images/graemlins/062802drink_prv.gif[/img]

The 380lbft thing is a play on my part, although a static dyno measured 361lbft at 2500 back in May. I calculated 380lbft at 20psi of boost based on the fact that the 285lbft was acheived with 14psi of boost. Note the boost spike at 2500 but the DIP in torque, I think the wheels spun on the rollers slightly when the boost spiked!! Still, it's only a bit of fun and there's no hard evidence available. [img]images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] [img]images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Greg_S]

When I was deciding what car to have next after crashing my Impreza, the Saab 9-5 Aero was on my list. I think it has roughly the same engine as the 9-3 you're talking about.

The engine actually has overboost which raises the boost for about 10 seconds, to produce extra torque - I can't remember how much. When you consider that it's a FWD car, and of course the 9-3 is lighter, that's why it will go so well.

What you must remember is that our 4WD cars have bigger transmission losses than 2WD cars. So in the right conditions a car like that 9-3 could out-accelerate some of our cars. But that's the point. The conditions have to be dry and in a straight line.

This isnt a new system. Was employed on the old S2's RS2' S4's and S6's.

Also Saab developed a variable compression head where the head could actually change its compression by raising and lowering the head from the block too.

[SaabTuner]

The Video Mark A posted was of my car. [img]images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] Not the fastest drag racer by any means. But certainly formidable from a moving start. Much fun to drive.

Cheers,
Adrian

[Brooner]

Thats always been one of the saab turbo's flaws no traction from a standing start. i've driven an 9000 turbo and as you say from an moving start the power is great i think there was a comparison with a farrari (spelling) from 50-70 in fifth gear the saab was quicker but they have never quite got the question of power down from the start the problem of front whell drive in such a powerful car imho long live the quattro [img]images/graemlins/bowdown.gif[/img] [img]images/graemlins/s4anogaro.gif[/img]

[SaabTuner]

IMHO the ideal setup would be as a Skyline. Most AWD systems lose 22% transferring to the wheels 15-17% in FWD or RWD ... the Skyline has the AWD when you need it for traction, and RWD when you need it for power. Course Saab only made their cars fast for passing on highways and such safety reasons. So when they tried to market a "performance" car there was just no way to make it AWD since they'd never needed that kinda of platform before. Still though, it is a lot of fun to drive. And the look on the face of an Evo driver who gets paced on the onramp is priceless. [img]images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Cheers,
Adrian

[Dippy]

Also Saab developed a variable compression head where the head could actually change its compression by raising and lowering the head from the block too.

Yes I read about that too. It was announced a few years back and promised great efficiency and performance from a relatively small engine. However I remember reading that it was really noisy. I suppose the fact that Saab have been quite about it for a while suggests that it is still a long way from becoming a production engine?