Ticket given for doing 32 mph in a 20mph zone -wot can i do?

[shineydave]

SUNTAN?

[S4TAN]

I've gotta ask: when you came up with your forum name did you actually mean to type 'S4TART' but hit the wrong buttons?...

Oh dear .... that just doesn't make sense now does it Clive? Firstly there's no such word as SATART, secondly the R and T are nowhere near the N .... however; if you're trying to imply that I'm a tart then you've got me bang to rights guv'nor!

SUNTAN? You can bugger off as well Slimeydave

I did toy with S4DIST for a while but settled on S4TAN - my name over on AW is 'Auntie Christ' - this suitably incensed the god-bothering redneck bible-belt loonies over there - which pleased me no end I can tell you.

[wombar]

That's what we like to hear

[I-want-an-RS]

Oh dear .... that just doesn't make sense now does it Clive? Firstly there's no such word as SATART, secondly the R and T are nowhere near the N ....

They're fecking close enough when I try to touch type

[shineydave]

it's DieselDave at the moment although our accountant, the Big Tit Fairy, has taken to calling me Dodgy Dave, we shall be discussing nicknames in the very near future

[S4TAN]

our accountant, the Big Tit Fairy

That's a rather unkind nickname for Clive isn't it?

[Scotty]

Its the last time im letting anyoine near my car. Not worth the hassle!!!!

How many people do you let drive your car ?

[derdle]

The law changed last Monday, so that if the registered keeper fails to provide adequate information to trace the driver, then the regiostered keeper will automatically receive 6 points. Not sure if the law applies to offences committed before that date or whether it will be the "failure to supply the information" that will trigger the new law.

Paul

[saf]

Thats just great!!!1

[JohnRet.]

Meant to add:
1) Never, under any circumstances, view the photo on the web prior to issuing your plead. By accessing the picture, they note it was accessed and I'm sure they trap your IP address - but in any case it is restricted access only to those photo's and they can identify if you have viewed it and then said, nope it wasn't me, even though you can be seen on the photo.

2) If caught speeding by a traffic car, apart from ensuring they loose sight of you at some stage during the pursuit, when you get into their car and they caution you and say "do you understand?", You reply with "No". They repeat the sentence, you repeat as before and ask for a copy of PACE (Police and Criminal Evidence act) to read, you need detailed clarification. By law they must get this to you, they are unlikely to have a copy of it in the car, so they need to call the base to have a copy brought to you as you refuse to goto the station. PACE is a LARGE book (250 odd pages) and by law you are entitled to read it in its entirity even if it takes you 48 hours, they cannot pass you onto another copper to continue to deal with it. They have to remain with you. You must keep reading slowly, then they will have to provide drinks etc for you. Make it desperately uncomfortable for them. And remember, this is perfectly legal.

The other thing is, when they say "anything you say will be written down and used as evidence", your response should be "please don't hit me again officer!", or "no, I will not admit this in order that you get away for food soon!"....words to that effect.....

Hhmmmm....

[shineydave]

our accountant, the Big Tit Fairy

That's a rather unkind nickname for Clive isn't it?

Trust me, she looks nothing like Clive

[FishFace1234]

Quite an interesting scenario. You requirements under section S.172 of the road traffic act are this:

S172 (2) “(2) Where the driver of a vehicle is alleged to be guilty of an offence to which this section applies—

(a) the person keeping the vehicle shall give such information as to the identity of the driver as he may be required to give by or on behalf of a chief officer of police, and

(b) any other person shall if required as stated above give any information which it is in his power to give and may lead to identification of the driver.”

You are appearing to comply with this as you have named who was driving. The question is at what point you satisfy the ‘information’ requirement? What is the minimum amount of details you have to provide to satisfy your obligation under this section? I actually don’t know 100% in this scenario as you’re naming a foreign resident. I’d assume it’ll be name, address, postcode and contact number. However, there may be some additional information requirement with someone foreign and overseas.
Of course the questions from the Police may well be giving the answer away but I’d advise you to ask the Police the minimum requirements and also specialist road traffic lawyer if that’s possible.

There’s also the question of at what point would the Police have legally served an NIP / S172 to someone abroad (if they’ve even able to).

For reference, when caught speeding, deny that it was you but there was a crowd of you in the car and if they can identify who was driving at the time by the photo then you can give them a name. Bottom line is that if you don't know who was driving due to a bad memory, then you don't know and if the photo can't help...Oops. BUT - and its a big but and only works in conjunction with the previous statement, you must prove to them BEYOND REASONABLE DOUBT that you have been unable to trace the driver. YOU MUST ALSO infer that you have shown due diligence in finding out who was driving.

You don’t need to prove beyond all reasonable doubt you have been unable to name the driver. Subsection 4 states:

"A person shall not be guilty of an offence by virtue of paragraph (a) of subsection (2) above if he shows that he did not know AND (my emphasis) could not with reasonable diligence have ascertained who the driver of the vehicle was".

Reasonable diligence stands upon its own i.e. not “reasonable diligence beyond all reasonable doubt”.

Meant to add:
1) Never, under any circumstances, view the photo on the web prior to issuing your plead. By accessing the picture, they note it was accessed and I'm sure they trap your IP address - but in any case it is restricted access only to those photo's and they can identify if you have viewed it and then said, nope it wasn't me, even though you can be seen on the photo.

This is totally wrong.

2) If caught speeding by a traffic car, apart from ensuring they loose sight of you at some stage during the pursuit, when you get into their car and they caution you and say "do you understand?", You reply with "No". They repeat the sentence, you repeat as before and ask for a copy of PACE (Police and Criminal Evidence act) to read, you need detailed clarification. By law they must get this to you, they are unlikely to have a copy of it in the car, so they need to call the base to have a copy brought to you as you refuse to goto the station. PACE is a LARGE book (250 odd pages) and by law you are entitled to read it in its entirity even if it takes you 48 hours, they cannot pass you onto another copper to continue to deal with it. They have to remain with you. You must keep reading slowly, then they will have to provide drinks etc for you. Make it desperately uncomfortable for them. And remember, this is perfectly legal.

This demonstrates why PePiPoo is often misleading. It claims the right is contained in the famous (Dwight) Yorke and Mawdesley test case. The full judgement is here - http://www.safespeed.org.uk/yandm.pdf – I can’t see it. I’ve never heard or read this “right” anywhere else except from PePiPoo, which includes specialist law books. The only time you are offered a copy of PACE by the Police is when you are under arrest at a Police station.

The other thing is, when they say "anything you say will be written down and used as evidence", your response should be "please don't hit me again officer!", or "no, I will not admit this in order that you get away for food soon!"....words to that effect.....

I don't think you can be arrested for traffic offences unless you have been drinking/drugged etc and either refuse a test or fail the test. If they cannot arrest you, they cannot charge you and they cannot take you to the station - but will seek clarity.

You can be arrested for any offence if the necessity to arrest is there. For example, if the officer is trying to issue you with a fixed penalty notice and you refuse to give him your details in order for him to do so, or he reasonably suspects they are incorrect details, you will be arrested until he / she can ascertain the correct details.

As an FYI.

The NIP and S172 is intended to identify the actual driver of the car.
If you volunteer some foreign person who cannot be tracked and cannot be identified, you are leaving yourself open to an "attempting to pervert the course of justice" charge if they think you lied just to get out of the speeding charge. This carries a potential prison sentence, fine and yes you can still get done for failing the S172 and end up with 3 points and a fine as well for that.
Good luck

If you’re telling the truth you’re not perverting the course of justice.

The law changed last Monday, so that if the registered keeper fails to provide adequate information to trace the driver, then the regiostered keeper will automatically receive 6 points. Not sure if the law applies to offences committed before that date or whether it will be the "failure to supply the information" that will trigger the new law.
Paul

The new law doesn’t apply to offences committed before the 24th.