White M3 at the docks .... what you think???

[Adam]

looks horrible in white but in black it will probably look nicer than an RS4 but that is because you are not comparing like for like, it is easy to make a coupe like nicer than a saloon or estate. I will compare the M3 saloon to my RS4 (when it is out) as a fiar comparison and I reckon the RS4 will fair pretty well.

I am sure all the mags will say the M3 handles better and will rate it higher than the RS4 but I hope the RS4 remains more exclusive and holds its value better, as with the B5.

[Lancia]

I drove the old M3 before I bought my S4. The M3 felt like a tractor compared to the S4 (only lasted 10 months).
The RS4 is twice as good as the S4 so this M3 should be something special, you would think. Then again will the comparison now be the S5 and M3, the RS4 and M5????
A carbon roof on the RS4 would look good. I also cant stand BMW's new interiors.

[audijohn]

Im sure in the flesh it will look superb. Big question for me is will it be significantly better than the rs4 and in 1yr/18months time how many will be on our roads vs the rs4. Personally I think the rs4 is going to be a moree disireable car come 2 years time.

I think the RS4 will have more "exclusivity" as the M3 production run will be much longer and sell loads, they will be common, not saying they are not a good buy, just common.

[RussianM3_dude]

I drove the old M3 before I bought my S4. The M3 felt like a tractor compared to the S4 (only lasted 10 months).
The RS4 is twice as good as the S4 so this M3 should be something special, you would think. Then again will the comparison now be the S5 and M3, the RS4 and M5????
A carbon roof on the RS4 would look good. I also cant stand BMW's new interiors.

My friend, you are in a tiny, tiny minority here. E46 spanked the B5/7 S4 in all areas. In EVO magazine test, they even had the E46 beat the RS4 AND C55. The M3 has one of the most adjustable chassis for a mainstream car, it's the S4 that was a bit of a tractor, no finesse, just point and shoot, a lot of understeer. Unless old you mean E36, which the US only got a mangled version of.

[SimonH]

I was looking at the new S5 this morning, and if Audi do build an RS5 version, i am pretty sure it will steal some of the M3 sales from BMW.It is a beautiful machine, and thats in Monaco, parked next to Lambos, Ferraris and Porsches.Regards, SIMON.

[theaxe]

I was looking at the new S5 this morning, and if Audi do build an RS5 version, i am pretty sure it will steal some of the M3 sales from BMW.It is a beautiful machine, and thats in Monaco, parked next to Lambos, Ferraris and Porsches.Regards, SIMON.

I think the S5 is a bit like marmite, some like it some don't.

Looking at an S5 in a dealer is what finally made me decide on the RS4. I figured there was no point waiting for an RS5 which I probably wouldn't like...

[audijohn]

I was looking at the new S5 this morning, and if Audi do build an RS5 version, i am pretty sure it will steal some of the M3 sales from BMW.It is a beautiful machine, and thats in Monaco, parked next to Lambos, Ferraris and Porsches.Regards, SIMON.

I think the S5 is a bit like marmite, some like it some don't.

Looking at an S5 in a dealer is what finally made me decide on the RS4. I figured there was no point waiting for an RS5 which I probably wouldn't like...

I have followed you and bought a New RS4 4 weeks ago, I just need more room in the back and I just can't like the S5 shape, somethings wrong to my eye, I'm an engineer and levels and symmetry are not in harmony on that car .

[SimonH]

I was looking at the new S5 this morning, and if Audi do build an RS5 version, i am pretty sure it will steal some of the M3 sales from BMW.It is a beautiful machine, and thats in Monaco, parked next to Lambos, Ferraris and Porsches.Regards, SIMON.

I think the S5 is a bit like marmite, some like it some don't.

Looking at an S5 in a dealer is what finally made me decide on the RS4. I figured there was no point waiting for an RS5 which I probably wouldn't like...

I have followed you and bought a New RS4 4 weeks ago, I just need more room in the back and I just can't like the S5 shape, somethings wrong to my eye, I'm an engineer and levels and symmetry are not in harmony on that car .

If you re-read my post, i said if Audi were to make an RS5 version, they will probably steal some M3 sales.I have an RS4, but i would not buy an S4.The RS version of the 5 would be an awesome car if it were to follow the trend of say the S4 and RS4, where the RS4 is the more desirable, far more sportier version.Going back to the original question of the M3, yes its OK, and if it turns out to be a junior M5, it will have my attention, but im saying if Audi make an RS5, it will hopefully be around the same price as a well specced M3, but a better performing and looking car, regards, SIMON.

[sykotoy]

i agree the s5/rs5 are way betta looking cars

[Wacko]

I'd have to disagree there. Quattro and in fact most 4WD setups make a MASSIVE difference to handling and grip in the wet. By the pure fact that you have 2 extra wheels trying to grip and influence the direction of the car, it will handle much better in the wet.

The clue to why you are wrong is in your answer. 4WD only gives you better traction. Handling is not impacted, and as someone has pointed out already is actually generally worse due to understeer.

I don't care what traction control or ESP one may have in an M3...either E46 or E90, it will not handle better than a B7 RS4 in the wet. You also need to remember that the E90 M3...despite the hoorays of carbon fibre roof etc., still weighs 1655kg (i.e. 5kg more than the B7 RS4 saloon!).

Sorry, you are wrong again. BMW measure curb weights: car + accessories + full fluids. Don't underestimate the fluids: 5l of oil... plus 5l of washer fluid, brake fluid, Power steering fluid etc etc.

Audi are a little cheeky and measure unladen weights which is just the car
(not in a driveable form).

The standard measure is EU1 weights: car + 68kg driver + accessories +
full fluids + 90% fuel + 7kg cargo.

Here are the differences (on a like-for-like basis) - the differences are
massive

In comparable terms:
the new M3 is 70 kgs heavier than the E46 M3
the new M3 is 204 kgs lighter than the RS4 avant,
and 144kgs lighter than the saloon.

-E60 M5: 1844 kgs (EU1) (275 bhp/t), or 1785kgs (curb) (284bhp/t)
-E46 M3: 1585kgs (EU1) (216 bhp/t), or 1495kgs (curb) (229 bhp/t)
-E92 M3: 1655kgs (EU1) (254 bhp/t), or 1585kgs (curb) (265 bhp/t)
-B7 RS4 (sal): 1799kgs (EU1) (233 bhp/t), or 1650kgs (UNLADEN) (255 bhp/t)
-B7 RS4 (avant): 1859 kgs (EU1) (226 bhp/t), or 1710kgs (UNLADEN)
(246bhp/t)
-C6 RS6 (sal): 1908kgs (EU1) (236 bhp/t), or 1840kgs (UNLADEN) (245
bhp/t)


The RS4 is a great car but lets try to be a bit more objective about other nice cars.

[I-want-an-RS]

Before I bought my S4 I looked at the E46 M3 and was going to get one as I already have a B5 RS4 However the fact I went for the S4 was because 1) the M3 is everywhere and the S4 isn't and 2) the S4 is a better handling car, wet or dry. The S4 isn't as quick as the M3 in out and out speed, it was never going to be with only 1bhp more and two extra wheels to drive but in the wet the M3 will never stay with the S4 although the M3 driver might be having more fun, the S4 driver will feel more smug.

As for the new M3 I like the looks of it and can't wait to see the cab as the new 3 series cab is one of the most stunning looking cars you'll see on the road but the interior of the new BMW's are not to my liking.

[RussianM3_dude]

The M3 is definetly a vastly better handling car then the S4, everybody concurs and M3 is faster on track. Sorry, in the dry their is no comparison. In fact I prefer the M3 to the RS4, let alone S4.

[SR71]

Taken from supercars.net...time around the Nurburgring...

M3 CSL - 7.50
B7 RS4 - 7.57
R8 - 8.04
M6 - 8.08
E60 M5 - 8.13
Z4M - 8.15
Z8 - 8.18
RS6 - 8.20
E46 M3 - 8.22
B5 RS4 - 8.25
335i - 8.26
B5 S4 - 8.29

I'd say the B7 RS4 is holding its own fairly well. Curiously, its faster than the R8?

It'll be interesting to see what the E92 M3 clocks up.

[RussianM3_dude]

That was with competition tires and carbon ceramic brakes.

[Wacko]

The fact that this table shows the RS4 being faster than the R8 shows it can't be relied upon. Same engine, in the middle of the car not overhanging the front wheels and less weight and the R8 is slower? Also the CSL can't be 32 secs quicker than the standard E46... can it?