RS7 APR Reflash....

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VARSITY
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Re: RS7 APR Reflash....

Post by VARSITY » Wed May 07, 2014 1:56 pm

Whilst away in Germany at the weekend, I visited a few friends at Raeder, Frikadeli, Black Falcon and Capricorn and surprise, they all have dynos.

So, why aren't they using the A61 Koln to Koblenz Autobahn or doing it on the Bitburg 026 runway and a VBox instead? Surely they are doing it all wrong then?

Cheers
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Re: RS7 APR Reflash....

Post by sakimano » Wed May 07, 2014 2:26 pm

VARSITY wrote:Whilst away in Germany at the weekend, I visited a few friends at Raeder, Frikadeli, Black Falcon and Capricorn and surprise, they all have dynos.

So, why aren't they using the A61 Koln to Koblenz Autobahn or doing it on the Bitburg 026 runway and a VBox instead? Surely they are doing it all wrong then?

Cheers
Have you listened to NOTHING I have posted in this thread?

I did not say the dyno has no use. Certainly tuners can use it for their development. My favourite tuning company JHM uses the dyno.

So to recap for you, I said the dyno is a dangerous marketing tool because:

1. it can be manipulated to tell the market whatever the operator wants it to thus enables unsavoury companies to operate with impunity in the marketplace
2. it doesn't reflect how a car accelerates in the real world...it reflects how it performs in one gear on a loaded up dyno

If you want to refute those statements, the crux of my argument for this entire thread, I welcome it.

Remember, I initially brought up the ridiculousness of using dyno numbers to compare because a guy in the UK was comparing MRC's RS7 dyno numbers to APR's RS7 dyno numbers. That's when I mentioned my preference for a standardized acceleration test, be it a certified dragstrip or a PBOX etc. But to compare one companies dyno result to another company's result using two completely different types of dynos is INSANE. Hell, to use two of the exact same model is insane because of the number of operator adjustable parameters.

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Re: RS7 APR Reflash....

Post by sakimano » Wed May 07, 2014 2:37 pm

VARSITY wrote:Which would lead me to believing, that you disagree with the 99% issue, therefore consider 'us' as idiots?

As a thought, keeping this on track (no pun intended) why don't manufacturers quote 1/4 mile or other times from the 'strip'?

I took Audi to the court steps over my B7 RS4 some years ago and won, or at least they gave in. This was when I had figured out there was a problem with the carbon build up and the power quoted and actually delivered. My case was built on information gained from dyno results, not drag strip info.

It is certainly something you can do with power delivery, tuning, by delivering power in different ways for different days. By tuning a car for the strip wouldn't be good for everyday or for the track. The same with wheels/tyres and gearing.

If the dyno can be used as a benchmark for the increase and gains whilst tuning, what is wrong with that?

I am not trying to belittle you, but your arguments are angry anti statements for the sake of it.

your use of the quote tool is a dog's breakfast. Let me help you.
sakimano wrote:I have seen some ripples on here about tuners who are full of it and not delivering on claims. For the most part though the market's pretty passive and content to get ass-raped.
The market IS passive on this matter. I have seen people badmouth UK tuning companies on here, referencing bullshyte dyno numbers that were a total crock once checked on a 3rd party dyno. Nobody cared. Nobody called the company out and demanded an explanation. The post got glossed over and everyone went about their business. I should find it for a laugh. I pointed you to the person who said it already 3 or 4 times. This thread shows that the market is passive. everyone's arguing for the dyno and against acceleration testing...INCLUDING the guy who made the earlier comment about bullshyte dyno numbers from a UK tuner.

As for your lawsuit...way to go. You making this point shows that you have listened to NOTHING I have posted in this thread. I did not say the dyno doesn't work. I did not say it should be barred. I just said it's a shitty marketing tool for reasons I outlined more clearly in the post directly above this one.

sakimano wrote:And you're an idiot if you believe that.
I was calling bambam an idiot for saying that 99% of the forum uses MRC. It's nowhere near the truth. Truth is that a large portion of the forum (it's the majority on most forums) have bog standard cars. Look at your signature if you need reminded of this. Half a dozen Audis, listed as 'standard'.

Further, how does me quoting bambam, and saying he's an idiot for his exaggeration turn into me calling the entire European market 'idiots'? That's quite a leap.

Further still, when did you and bumbum become 'us'? Do you two share a pouch with one teste each?

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Re: RS7 APR Reflash....

Post by chunky79 » Wed May 07, 2014 2:57 pm

I agree with some info from both sides. We have a member on here who says the car has 1000 torgues, this is cause of a dyno. Yet, I have been told that the car on the road feels like it has a lot less. Now, 0-60 or 1/4 mile times would show what's what.
It's ok using a dyno as reference if everyone uses the same one. As said above, most on here use MRC so it's an efficient way of seeing how your particular model stacks up against other owners.
As with everything, you have variables that can change the outcome, get on a dyno in the winter and you'll get better results. Go down Santa pod on a red hot day and you'll be slower than on a cooler day.
IM A FECKEN IDJIT.
Anyone pulled one of today? It may help.
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Re: RS7 APR Reflash....

Post by bam_bam » Wed May 07, 2014 3:07 pm

chunky79 wrote:Anyone pulled one of today? It may help.
Two since breakfast but I had a "Five Guys" burger (sounds like a gangrape, huh?) for lunch so that's slowed me right down.
No matter where you go, there you are.

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Re: RS7 APR Reflash....

Post by sakimano » Wed May 07, 2014 3:26 pm

chunky79 wrote:I agree with some info from both sides. We have a member on here who says the car has 1000 torgues, this is cause of a dyno. Yet, I have been told that the car on the road feels like it has a lot less. Now, 0-60 or 1/4 mile times would show what's what.
It's ok using a dyno as reference if everyone uses the same one. As said above, most on here use MRC so it's an efficient way of seeing how your particular model stacks up against other owners.
As with everything, you have variables that can change the outcome, get on a dyno in the winter and you'll get better results. Go down Santa pod on a red hot day and you'll be slower than on a cooler day.
IM A FECKEN IDJIT.
Anyone pulled one of today? It may help.
well said. It should also be referenced that the dyno (same one) can change DRASTICALLY if you just change load or weight parameters (or get them wrong). It's much easier to get wonky dyno results. Did you see the AMS video about the 'Mustang' dyno? Produced by the guys making some of the fastest Nissan GTR modification packages on earth. They use the dyno to tune, but they use the dragstrip to market.

As for the 1/4 mile on a hot summer day, sure thing. It is not as quick. However, remember that I'm advocating TUNING COMPANIES (had to use capitals because people keep missing this and think I'm telling customers to go) show what their products can do. If they're doing that, they'll take care of the variables. They will go when it's cold. They will go when it's dense. They will go with a good driver. They will go with the right fuel, and without a 200lb toolbox in the trunk (a popular excuse). They will get the best out of the car if they're using the result to sell parts.

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Re: RS7 APR Reflash....

Post by sakimano » Wed May 07, 2014 3:27 pm

bam_bam wrote:Two since breakfast but I had a "Five Guys" burger (sounds like a gangrape, huh?) for lunch so that's slowed me right down.

You like Five Guys? I tried Five Guys once, and it was $16 (10 pounds) for a cheeseburger, fries and a Coke. That's crazier than using a dyno to see how fast you are.

Burger was OK but I prefer flame-grilled, preferably charcoal.

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Re: RS7 APR Reflash....

Post by bam_bam » Wed May 07, 2014 3:32 pm

I ate it sat in my car, while it was on a dyno, just to see how much faster it made me go.
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Re: RS7 APR Reflash....

Post by Mr Footlong » Wed May 07, 2014 4:56 pm

Erm, I thought that everybody knew that you can't say that results on one companies dyno for the same car would be the same on another comnpanies dyno?????

I have known that since my first Scoob back in 2001 or so. I think more read high than low over here personally and there are so many different type too. I have know idea how frequently MRC have theirs calibrated etc but personally I would bet the farm that theirs is damn close to as accurate as can be hoped for and I would be disappointed if that wasn't the case.
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Re: RS7 APR Reflash....

Post by chunky79 » Wed May 07, 2014 5:30 pm

bam_bam wrote:
chunky79 wrote:Anyone pulled one of today? It may help.
Two since breakfast but I had a "Five Guys" burger (sounds like a gangrape, huh?) for lunch so that's slowed me right down.
I'm up to 3 times, as of ........... ah, now.

I made 2 deliberate Nazi's in my post, yet they weren't noticed/ picked up on. This thread has made peoples brains go pearshaped.

Stretch, sure you used enough ????? above ????????????
previous- Pug 205 gti, 306 gti, 309 gti Goodwood.
Audi S3, S4 V8 avant.
Porsche Macan Turbo.
Gone but NEVER forgotten - C5 RS6 Misano red avant.

Now - Empty garage

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Re: RS7 APR Reflash....

Post by chunky79 » Wed May 07, 2014 5:31 pm

Mr Footlong wrote:Erm, I thought that everybody knew that you can't say that results on one companies dyno for the same car would be the same on another comnpanies dyno?????

I have known that since my first Scoob back in 2001 or so. I think more read high than low over here personally and there are so many different type too. I have know idea how frequently MRC have theirs calibrated etc but personally I would bet the farm that theirs is damn close to as accurate as can be hoped for and I would be disappointed if that wasn't the case.
*companies.
previous- Pug 205 gti, 306 gti, 309 gti Goodwood.
Audi S3, S4 V8 avant.
Porsche Macan Turbo.
Gone but NEVER forgotten - C5 RS6 Misano red avant.

Now - Empty garage

If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there!

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sakimano
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Re: RS7 APR Reflash....

Post by sakimano » Wed May 07, 2014 5:39 pm

chunky79 wrote:
Mr Footlong wrote:Erm, I thought that everybody knew that you can't say that results on one companies dyno for the same car would be the same on another comnpanies dyno?????

I have known that since my first Scoob back in 2001 or so. I think more read high than low over here personally and there are so many different type too. I have know idea how frequently MRC have theirs calibrated etc but personally I would bet the farm that theirs is damn close to as accurate as can be hoped for and I would be disappointed if that wasn't the case.
*companies.
company's, actually

:)

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Re: RS7 APR Reflash....

Post by chunky79 » Wed May 07, 2014 5:42 pm

You gonna fucken argue about that too :roll: :lol:
previous- Pug 205 gti, 306 gti, 309 gti Goodwood.
Audi S3, S4 V8 avant.
Porsche Macan Turbo.
Gone but NEVER forgotten - C5 RS6 Misano red avant.

Now - Empty garage

If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there!

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sakimano
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Re: RS7 APR Reflash....

Post by sakimano » Wed May 07, 2014 8:25 pm

Let's have bambam explain the grammar to us.


In other news, here's an interesting forum exchange. This is for Varsity who was on a quest for the truth :roll: Looks like some folks recognize that the dyno isn't exactly the best benchmark in all situations

Silas wrote:
watts6087 wrote:Custom exhaust with x section!! Stage 2 map pre cats gutted and carbon clean!
440bhp
Don't tell me!! Bet that's AMD's 440
Firestarter wrote:
Silas wrote:Don't tell me!! Bet that's AMD's 440
:dung: :piss: :piss: :dung:
watts6087 wrote:Haha yeah what a guess! I bet they just print that out for everyone lol

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Re: RS7 APR Reflash....

Post by bam_bam » Wed May 07, 2014 10:47 pm

sakimano wrote:Let's have bambam explain the grammar to us.


In other news, here's an interesting forum exchange. This is for Varsity who was on a quest for the truth :roll: Looks like some folks recognize that the dyno isn't exactly the best benchmark in all situations

Silas wrote:
watts6087 wrote:Custom exhaust with x section!! Stage 2 map pre cats gutted and carbon clean!
440bhp
Don't tell me!! Bet that's AMD's 440
Yep, that'll be the 1%.
Firestarter wrote:
Silas wrote:Don't tell me!! Bet that's AMD's 440
:dung: :piss: :piss: :dung:
watts6087 wrote:Haha yeah what a guess! I bet they just print that out for everyone lol
No matter where you go, there you are.

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