C7 S6 vs. C6 RS6

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W8PMC
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Re: C7 S6 vs. C6 RS6

Post by W8PMC » Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:47 am

Amar wrote:Stock vs stock

C6 RS6
0-60 in 4.3 (Evo Mag)
0-100 in 9.7 (Evo Mag)

C7 S6
0-60 in 3.7 (Car & Driver)
0-100 in 9.2 (Car & Driver)

The C7 S6 is impressive to say the least, did you get any photos at all, Paul?
Holy smoly :kissmyrings: It felt quick but TBH it didn't feel sub 4secs quick. Saying that it was brand new & i didn't want to hurt it by performing launches.

If they do drop this engine in the next gen RS6 with an extra 150bhp then it should be dynamite & just goes to prove how Audi has has moved forward in just a single incarnation. :beerchug:

I did get some photos (not decent ones though) so will upload them & link to a dedicated thread here later this week:) Overall it's one of the most impressive cars i've driven in a long time. That's based on all my motoring requirements, performance, styling, comfort, economy, price & toys.
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Re: C7 S6 vs. C6 RS6

Post by sakimano » Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:26 pm

This thread reminds me of the B8 S4 guys talking about the B7 RS4 and vice versa.

It's a testament to progress that the RS models which were considered MENTAL when they were released (B7 and C6) are now matched in many ways by the S models 5-6 years later.

The C6 RS6 vs. C7 S6 debate is a good one. I think it would be a no-brainer to get a C6 RS6. Far more interesting car. Both look great. Both go like hell. Both will surely be pretty rare cars. If you're into tuning, the RS cars are always a great choice thanks to quattro using superior materials and design to allow even more mental power to be handled by the motor. I don't see that in the C7 S6 with cast pistons and rods (or the B8 S4 with cast pistons and rods).

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Re: C7 S6 vs. C6 RS6

Post by gdavison » Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:59 pm

I think this has been mentioned before on other comparisons of 0 to 60 times .. US mags (ie Car and Driver) always use a One foot roll out setting on their P-Box as that is normal for US drag times. UK Mags (Evo) dont use the rollout

From w w w.nogaroblue.c o m/27978/30426.html but pasted here in case the link screws up

So what is rollout ??

Rollout defined: The concept relates directly to NHRA dragstrips and the measurement methods used in quarter mile racing. For the unfamiliar, this is how it works. When you pull into the staging area or starting line, there are two light beams which are aimed perpendicular to the track. The first light beam is the "pre-staging" light. It has no real function except for telling you when you're getting close to the starting line. The 2nd light beam, called the "stage" beam, is the actual starting line. Ignoring staging strategies (shallow stage, deep stage, etc), we'll assume the car pulls up to the staging line until the beam is just barely broken by the front tires...as this red Civic shows below (the black wheel).

Image

When the light turns green, the driver mashes the gas. However, the timing clock doesn't know that the car is moving until the front tire moves far enough away from the light beam to allow it to fully shine across the track. This is demonstrated by the grayed out tire in the below photo. In reality, the car moves a distance of about 12" taking 0.3 seconds for free...the clock hasn't started yet. Once the clock starts, the car is already moving 3 mph

That brings us back to modern day test measurements. Car magazines and car manufactures don't test on dragstrips very often. They use sophisticated computerized GPS or "5th wheel" type measurement systems. A commonly used system comes from a system called a Racelogic VBOX.

How does this all tie together? Well, this fancy measurement system eliminated the need to have an optical start/stop line like a dragstrip does. However, magazines want to publish times that relate to what the average Joe can accomplish if he takes his car to the local NHRA dragstrip...so all the major US car magazines still test with a 12" simulated rollout. This also makes acceleration times look faster on paper, which of course sells too.

Car and Driver, Road and Track, and Motortrend all use this simulated 12" rollout. That means when you read any acceleration statistics in those magazines, it's not a true 0-60, 0-100, or 0-150 mph time. It's actually measuring 3 mph to 60, or 3 mph to 100, or 3 mph to 150. The car starts from a stand still, but the clock doesn't begin to run until the car has moved 12", gained 3 mph, and traveled for 0.3 seconds.

GM and Ford also use rollout when claiming their factory times.

Also all American Mags use "corrected" figures based upon weather etc there is a good read here w w w.insideline.com/features/how-we-test-cars-and-trucks.html

In that article they show the same run data, used differently would show a 0 to 60 time of between 7.92 and 8.61 seconds depending on how correction maths was done and if rollout was used

So in Summary - This means that British, German, or Japanese magazines will clock times that are 0.3 seconds slower than US magazines for the same car as they time true 0-60 and true quarter mile times. They use no rollout. The 12" / 0.3 / 3 mph "advantage" is of course based upon tyre size so is an "about" figure not an accurate one

So Amars figures "corrected" for rollout would be

C6 RS6
0-60 in 4.3 (Evo Mag)
0-100 in 9.7 (Evo Mag)

C7 S6
0-60 in 4.0 (Car & Driver)
0-100 in 9.5 (Car & Driver)

That is unless he added the 0.3 himself :)
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Re: C7 S6 vs. C6 RS6

Post by Nickyboy » Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:17 pm

So in summary still quicker than an RS6 in a straight line.
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Re: C7 S6 vs. C6 RS6

Post by HYFR » Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:28 pm

its not

its got launch control and an s-tronic gearbox

the C6 will fly past it like its standing still past 80mph

my old TTRS was in front of Nudenut's 580PS R8 to 60/70 as it launched and hooked up so damn good and had such instant shifts... but at 80mph the V10 went past like I was going backward, it was ridiculous

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Re: C7 S6 vs. C6 RS6

Post by Nickyboy » Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:41 pm

So would it be safe to say it is quicker 0-100 then based on the results above? In gear may be different and higher speeds may be different. For a non track car then brilliant really. I guess any 6 isn't really a track car so for legal speeds the C7 S6 is the one you want if you want to be quicker at legal speeds.
2014: 8V S3, Scirocco (mistake)
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Re: C7 S6 vs. C6 RS6

Post by HYFR » Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:44 pm

tuned C6 = 0-100 <8seconds

not many cars that can do that with a wardrobe in the back

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Re: C7 S6 vs. C6 RS6

Post by Nickyboy » Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:54 pm

Tuned is another story.

I see you have your 6 in the previous part of your signature. How the hell do you buy and sell cars so quick?
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Re: C7 S6 vs. C6 RS6

Post by HYFR » Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:55 pm

stil cant see a C7 S6 doing that with a map ... it weighs near enough the same

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Re: C7 S6 vs. C6 RS6

Post by gdavison » Tue Aug 21, 2012 5:51 pm

Nickyboy wrote:So in summary still quicker than an RS6 in a straight line.
We don't know as we have no way of knowing what Climate / weather correction was done to the US figures
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Re: C7 S6 vs. C6 RS6

Post by adsgreen » Tue Aug 21, 2012 5:52 pm

You can see on the images for the C7 S6 engine graphs the torque is phenominal (esp given don't forget it's down a litre on the rs6) and is obviously artificially controlled. Whilst I don't say that it'll be RS6 speeds (4.0 v8 car in slower than a 5.0v10 shocker ;)) I don't think it's going to be a slouch. As ever though, the DCT gearbox will be the unknown.

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Re: C7 S6 vs. C6 RS6

Post by adsgreen » Tue Aug 21, 2012 5:54 pm

gdavison wrote:
Nickyboy wrote:So in summary still quicker than an RS6 in a straight line.
We don't know as we have no way of knowing what Climate / weather correction was done to the US figures
Granted however though it's a pretty confident gamble that out of the box and off the lights at road legal speeds it'll be quicker than everything (stock) this side of an R8 V10. Not bad going really.

And this is the crux of the problem... yes the RS6 will be quicker in gear and at silly speeds but the difference for legal road use is going to be marginal at best. The S6 has all the toys soo the RS6 really has to be something special to keep it different.

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Re: C7 S6 vs. C6 RS6

Post by gdavison » Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:21 pm

adsgreen wrote:
gdavison wrote:
Nickyboy wrote:So in summary still quicker than an RS6 in a straight line.
We don't know as we have no way of knowing what Climate / weather correction was done to the US figures
Granted however though it's a pretty confident gamble that out of the box and off the lights at road legal speeds it'll be quicker than everything (stock) this side of an R8 V10. Not bad going really.

And this is the crux of the problem... yes the RS6 will be quicker in gear and at silly speeds but the difference for legal road use is going to be marginal at best. The S6 has all the toys soo the RS6 really has to be something special to keep it different.
Yup I reckon that pretty much sums it up :beerchug:
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Re: C7 S6 vs. C6 RS6

Post by W8PMC » Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:19 pm

Finally got round to doing a write up & posting a few piccies in the new S6 sections (thanks Phil) :bigblink:

http://forum.rs246.com/viewtopic.php?f=81&t=98677
Paul
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Re: C7 S6 vs. C6 RS6

Post by W8PMC » Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:31 pm

D_K wrote:its not

its got launch control and an s-tronic gearbox

the C6 will fly past it like its standing still past 80mph

my old TTRS was in front of Nudenut's 580PS R8 to 60/70 as it launched and hooked up so damn good and had such instant shifts... but at 80mph the V10 went past like I was going backward, it was ridiculous
David, i make the point again that in this country using UK limits it's quicker. Perhaps past 80 or 100 the RS6 would catch up & come past, but how is that really relevant in this debate?

Also & the point i first made that then caused you to defend for some reason is that the C7 S6 has the new 4.0litre TFSi Audi engine, which produces 420ps, yet the C6 RS6 has a 5.2litre bi-turbo Lambo engine that produces 572ps & both cars are of very similar weight, so which car on the face of it is the clever one?

What this does do is bode so well for the next gen RS6. If that has this same engine in a higher state of tune, mated with an s-tronic box then (stock) it could be able to compete with Nissan's mighty GT-R in the performance stakes, albeit both very different cars.
Paul
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