JCviggen wrote:sakimano wrote:
We've looked at the torque curve. We've looked at area under the HP curve. THe S6 monsters the RS4/RS5 in both metrics up until the S6 is artificially reigned back in by boost control in the ECU calibration at 6000 RPM.
Could you post it? I didn't see it but it would be very interesting.
Don't forget that once you get out of first gear, the only rpm's on the power curve that matter are those near the top. After a shift it doesn't drop down to 2500, it'll be 4500-5000 at least (more in the case of the NA V8)
That's where the 60-130 time (and trap speed) come in to play, I fully understand how the torque is responsible for a great 0-60 and ET but it doesn't explain the others very well.
From 0-6000 RPM the S6 is behaving like a 500 hp/430tq car...
I don't think so. Until 4000rpm maybe.
My 2003 RS6 makes 450 bhp between 5700 and 6300 (stock) with 413 ft-lb tq from 1950-5600. (on a load dyno it crossed 420bhp at 4500rpm stock map but with gutted precats)
The only 500hp NA car that sprang to my mind is the chevy Z06 and that crosses 420hp at around 4500rpm.
But, back to the RS5, when you shift at max rpm it'll drop back to somewhere around 6500rpm. It'll reach 420 around 7200-7300rpm. for the next 1000rpm it'll be making more power than the S6. Let's say that it spends 1000rpm making slightly less power than the S6, and 1000rpm making slightly more. For all intents and purposes these engines (and their respective gearboxes) should deliver similar performance once the revs are up (2nd gear onwards)
The kerb weight I found for the RS5 was 3803 pounds, but it's somewhat unclear if the 4250 of the S6 includes a driver or not (the RS5 certainly doesn't)
I don't understand how you can say 'I don't think so' to the comment I made about the S6 torque curve/hp profile when you just admitted to never seeing it. I'm not saying it makes 500 hp at 6000 rpm. I am saying the tune cuts boost dramatically up above 5500 RPM. So the curve and work measured as area under the curve, is not indicative of a 420 hp car. Or a 450 hp car. It's more like a 500 hp car and this is evident with the excellent torque profile and the hp profile before the tune steps in to keep a nice gap between the S6 and the S8.
My point was simple...peak HP is usually a measure that comes near redline thanks to the multiplication effect of using RPM x torque / 5252 to come up with hp. Right? Well, if a car with a 6500 RPM redline is NEUTURED artificially by the tune at 5500 rpm or so, that last part of the curve (where peak hp is measured) is not going to reflect what has gone on before it. That's all I meant by that. If you say '420 hp cars (or 450) can't do this' you have to recognize that you're not really looking at a curve that would be compared to another 420hp car etc unless it too was neutered up top (the RS5 wasn't...in fact it and the RS4 are pushed pretty hard to redline, stock tune considered.
I also think you're oversimplifying what goes on in the RS5 when you change gears...and underestimating the power the S6 is actually making. The RS5, if gearing is anything like the RS4,
will not drop back to 6500 RPM when you change gears.
When you drop into
2nd gear in the RS4 from first, you're around 4700 RPM (if you don't waste any time and don't lose any RPM.
If you do it from redline in 2nd, you engage
3rd gear at 5500 rpm then run a full 2,500 RPM to redline.
When you change to
4th gear you engage it at 5900 and then spend 2100 before redline.
These changes all assume you're going WOT and losing no speed on the changes. Anyway, check the actual numbers, not guesses. Much more interesting!
Tested RS5s weigh between 3950-3975 lbs on the tests I've seen. Don't use audi posted weights, as they are measured with cars wearing the smallest wheels, cloth seats, roll down windows, limited electronics etc. etc. i.e. they said the RS4 weighed 3750 lbs but mine weighs 3920 lbs...
p.s. RS4/RS5 are pretty similar with the exception being the RS5 has that extra 250 rpm to work with. Not a huge advantage really...but look at the gap between the almost certainly under-rated S6 and the RS4. It's a large gap everywhere but the hp at redline with the RS5. The rest of the parts of the gear where you're engaged, you're looking at the RS4/5 getting thumped by the S6.