MRC C7 Remap

[MikeFish]

It'd buy me a night in Rhinos but that's not the point either!!

Might make an interesting thread: What's the best thing you could do with £800?

[Paulm]

So if that's not the point then what does the price of the car mean?. I spend £80K so lets just chuck some cash as a remap, who cares how much just lets do it? Nah.

I have no problem spending money but I wont just spend it because everyone else does. As I have said I used MRC in the past and cant fault them.

Being a Jock I am tight as a ducks RS and expect value for money. I don't feel that's what I am getting.

"Emperor and his cloths" always springs to mind in there situations

[SuprSi]

I always thought;
Stage 1 was a remap on standard car
Stage 2 remap with exhaust and filter
Stage 3 extensive mods requiring comprehensive remap.

I don't get why the MRC stage 2 map costs so much. MRC do a stage 2 map for the B7 for about £600. OK so the B7 is N/A so no boost presures to deal with etc but the jump to £1400 seems a lot to me (assuming that is remap only and doesn't include filters / exhaust). I don't know anything about mapping but I presume they stick on a generic base map for starters then fine tune it to each car on the dyno. Or is it a case of higher cost to recoup their initial costs to develop the base map and the price comes down after a while when costs have been covered.

One thing, the stage 1 is a more standard map that's been developed and tested to work nicely on most cars, stage 2 is a custom map to suit that car so requires a lot more dyno time.

[MikeFish]

I understand that and that is reflected in the MRC price structure (for the B7 anyway) as a stage 1 map is understandably cheaper. Must be develpment costs for the 'newer' C7.

[W8PMC]

cheapest Milltek I can find it £1900, not delivered or fitted

Anyway as you say good value. Going with GTR stuff any stage be it 1,2 3,4 or 4.25 is the same price £600. Moving from one stage to another is only £300. Why would the RS6 be any different??


I am sure I will find out once mine arrives and I start playing.

I think Revolution are doing the Milltek (non-res) for about £1650 fitted. It is however another £250 for resonated (that could be the other way round however).

Having had a GT-R i'm confused when you say it's £600 to move stages as it most certainly isn't unless you're purely referring to the upgraded tune aspect?

Stage 1 (IIRC) is tune only & Stage 2 adds a Y-Pipe which you're correct is about a further £600 for the pipe (i'm sure the tune would also be more though). Then moving up through the numbers you add a cat-back system next which is £1000-5000, then injectors & intakes, then downpipes & then turbos so after Stage 2 each uplift is thousands of pounds & that's not taking the upgraded tune cost into account.

If i've misunderstood then forgive me.

[W8PMC]

I always thought;
Stage 1 was a remap on standard car
Stage 2 remap with exhaust and filter
Stage 3 extensive mods requiring comprehensive remap.

I don't get why the MRC stage 2 map costs so much. MRC do a stage 2 map for the B7 for about £600. OK so the B7 is N/A so no boost presures to deal with etc but the jump to £1400 seems a lot to me (assuming that is remap only and doesn't include filters / exhaust). I don't know anything about mapping but I presume they stick on a generic base map for starters then fine tune it to each car on the dyno. Or is it a case of higher cost to recoup their initial costs to develop the base map and the price comes down after a while when costs have been covered.

One thing, the stage 1 is a more standard map that's been developed and tested to work nicely on most cars, stage 2 is a custom map to suit that car so requires a lot more dyno time.

That. Most Stage 1 tunes are generic so the development costs have already been absorbed. That's fine it you're tuning a Golf or a Focus etc. but for a £70k+ car i want bespoke & for that you're gonna pay money i'm afraid.

[W8PMC]

I would pay £600 all day long. I wont pay £1400 for a map but that's just me.

"You get what you pay for"? Does that mean DMS are ever better?? They are over £2k I believe. Madness

not into open wallet surgery.

I do agree though development costs must set any company back a huge amount and given there won't be may RS6's on the roads it must be hard to recoup their initial investment, not easy to keep everyone happy.

As you say Paul it's your choice, but personally i think it's a strange one when you're penny pinching for a potential tune on a car as complex & highly tuned as a C7 RS6. For Golfs etc. fair enough, but an RS?

As said above, the development of a Stage 2 tune is significant when viewed against a Stage 1 & as it's customised to each individual car just the RR time adds up to a few hundred ££'s.

Although i know DMS have an Epic Stage 2 tune for the C7 RS6, i can't comment on the development costs or even how it's applied to that car, however on the F10 M5, Rob had my car for over a week to perfect the Stage 2 tune as it's ECU's out & bench tuned with many RR runs to get there. Then factor in the warranty & it's very easy to get North of £2k & for me that's not an issue as you'd pay over £1k for a basic 3rd party warranty on these cars. Lastly DMS will of course keep your stock code & tune code, so if the tune needs re-applying due to a dealer over writing it (you'd be surprised how often that happens) or you need the car returning to stock, they'll come out to you (wherever in the UK) & do this for free. That level of service also needs paying for which is why it's perhaps viewed as a premium, but personally i think it's more than worth it.

[Leo-RS]

According to MRC, the RS6/7's are an absolute pig to tune with a generic code and that's the reason for their price as each car needs a fully customised optimisation rather than a simple file upload. This means that although the Stage 1 tune is labelled as Stage 1 (due to being software only) - its fully customised so more like Stage 2. They like a full 10hr day on the car for example.

I was told a file that works well on one car may be a pig on another due to the sensitivities within the differing ecu's, one car may be advancing timing and the other retarding and this is why a days full of dedicated tuning is required even on the standard cars.

APR are £2k for their map
Revo are £1200 for their map
MRC, I'm not actually too sure what they charge but they are reasonable if you speak to them.
DMS £1500+

Litchfield costs £600 but a waste of time I think, Iain has an RS6 but has no interest in developing or tuning it properly. He lists Stage 1 at 650hp for example but I think he has a stage 1 file saved from his own car and just loads that into any other RS6 as a generic code. Infact, following his page on Facebook I'm not sure he's tuned any other RS6's other than his own. Litchfields are not VAG specialists and I would be surprised if he knew the ins and outs of the ECU's like the specialist VAG tuners mentioned above. I find Iain unreliable and a nightmare to deal with to be fair, phone calls and emails go unanswered and false promises are made. He concentrates his efforts on GTR's and that needs to be considered when opting for a tuner that knows your car inside out back to front. Iain does not, he's just simply dipped his toes into the VAG market. Iain also uses silly Stage numbers like he does on the GTR tuning scene. Stage 1 on VAG cars is software. Stage 2 on VAG cars is software + bolt ons. Stage 3 is hybrid/big turbos.

http://www.litchfieldimports.co.uk/Audi/RS6/tuning

Iain lists 650hp from Stage 1 (software only). 730 from stage 2 (Catback Exhaust +80hp ) and then 750 'Stage 3' (full exhaust) I queried him on these figures and these were his guesstimates based on his own car which at the time had an Akra catback and tune so nowhere near 730. A catback is not going to yield 80hp for example, lucky if it gives 8hp, it's the downpipes that give the big stage 2 gains, not the catback.

Seriously unimpressed with him, seems lazy.

As for costs, yep, you can tune a GTR for a few hundred £, not on Audi RS's though. Exhaust wise, the turbo back exhausts are going to cost you £3k+. Revolution though are doing some good deals due to black Friday this week so you may get around 25% off the list price of an exhaust.

[W8PMC]

According to MRC, the RS6/7's are an absolute pig to tune with a generic code and that's the reason for their price as each car needs a fully customised optimisation rather than a simple file upload. This means that although the Stage 1 tune is labelled as Stage 1 (due to being software only) - its fully customised so more like Stage 2. They like a full 10hr day on the car for example.

I was told a file that works well on one car may be a pig on another due to the sensitivities within the differing ecu's, one car may be advancing timing and the other retarding and this is why a days full of dedicated tuning is required even on the standard cars.

APR are £2k for their map
Revo are £1200 for their map
MRC, I'm not actually too sure what they charge but they are reasonable if you speak to them.
DMS £1500+

Litchfield costs £600 but a waste of time I think, Iain has an RS6 but has no interest in developing or tuning it properly. He lists Stage 1 at 650hp for example but I think he has a stage 1 file saved from his own car and just loads that into any other RS6 as a generic code. Infact, following his page on facebook I'm not sure he's tuned any other RS6's other than his own. Litchfields are not VAG specialists and I would be surprised if he knew the ins and outs of the ECU's like the specialist VAG tuners mentioned above. I find Iain unreliable and a nightmare to deal with to be fair, phone calls and emails go unanswered and false promises are made. He concentrates his efforts on GTR's and that needs to be considered when opting for a tuner that knows your car inside out back to front. Iain does not, he's just simply dipped his toes into the VAG market. Iain also uses silly Stage numbers like he does on the GTR tuning scene. Stage 1 on VAG cars is software. Stage 2 on VAG cars is software + bolt ons. Stage 3 is hybrid/big turbos.

http://www.litchfieldimports.co.uk/Audi/RS6/tuning

Iain lists 650hp from Stage 1 (software only). 730 from stage 2 (Catback Exhaust +80hp ) and then 750 'Stage 3' (full exhaust) I queried him on these figures and these were his guesstimates based on his own car which at the time had an Akra catback and tune so nowhere near 730. A catback is not going to yield 80hp for example, lucky if it gives 8hp, it's the downpipes that give the big stage 2 gains, not the catback.

Seriously unimpressed with him, seems lazy.

As for costs, yep, you can tune a GTR for a few hundred £, not on Audi RS's though. Exhaust wise, the turbo back exhausts are going to cost you £3k+. Revolution though are doing some good deals due to black Friday this week so you may get around 25% off the list price of an exhaust.

Couldn't have said it any better myself.

Worth noting though that Iain's Stage 2 figures whilst as you say including a Catback zorst, will no doubt include an uprated tune so the +80 won't be coming from purely the zorst.

DMS for example on the F10 M5 quote Stage 1 as being about 670bhp & 610lbsft, but Stage 2 is 730+bhp (748 on mine) & 680lbsft+ (700 on mine) & that's with NO mechanical changes (bolt on's) If you add an exhaust you'd likely yield another 10-15bhp but as you say that's about the limit without downpipes etc.

To Paul, if you want a proper custom tune specifically for your car then it's going to cost you North of £1000 & for Stage 2 likely closer to £2000 including VAT.

[Leo-RS]

What hardware changes have you made to your M5 Paul? Full exhaust and intake?

RS6 guys looking in, have a look in the for sale thread, the revolution store are doing Black Friday discounts, just got 28% off the Milltek downpipes/Cat bypass pipes

[W8PMC]

What hardware changes have you made to your M5 Paul? Full exhaust and intake?

RS6 guys looking in, have a look in the for sale thread, the revolution store are doing Black Friday discounts, just got 28% off the Milltek downpipes/Cat bypass pipes

Nothing Leo. The only mechanical upgrades to my car are H&R Springs & Pagid RS29 pads, everything else (other than the software) is stock which is what i wanted. To be honest, DMS developed their F10 M5 Stage 2 tune on my car so it delivered exactly as i'd hoped, although it did require a little fine tuning as the huge torque was causing the car to throw a hesitation & then fault when pushing through 120mph on WOT on track. On the road this was never an issue as was never pushing those sorts of speeds & still WOT.

[M1R XE]

Wow 748 BHP and 700 torque ??? Just from stage 2 on a M5 ???

[W8PMC]

Wow 748 BHP and 700 torque ??? Just from stage 2 on a M5 ???

My car was producing close to 600bhp stock (which is very common) so BMW massively underplayed the outputs on these cars.

[MikeFish]

And if I recall correctly you v-boxed it 0-60 in something like 2.7secs!!!!! That's just crazy!

[Paulm]

It's not £600 it's only £300. Software only though.

You say penny pinching I say I am being shrewd, sensible and informed decision making

Is it penny pinching to get £14k off the RS or shrewd?

How about buying secondhand parts for my GTR and fitting them myself? I saved a fortune ?
Remap for my GTR to put our around 800bhp with hybrid turbos cost £300
Researched ages before buying my turbos got a cracking deal or just follow everyone else and spend a fortune?

Everyone is different. I like going my own way and enjoy the challenge of getting there a slightly more convoluted way but an interesting and fun way. I am not forcing anyone to follow my lead.