Advice on a potential purchase

[MikeFish]

I thought the OP was asking if 80k was the right price for the spec / age / milage of the car rather than what it'll be worth when he sells it?
He said he was aware of the big losses. And the fact it will have 1 owner rather than 2 when he comes to sell it in maybe 3 years will make little difference. So the question is, is it the right price?
The price is right for the spec if it was a brand new car. but that comes with a fairly length wait at the moment. So the question is, can you put aside the fact it has one owner and potenially been thrashed from cold for the sake of getting now rather than getting a new one at christmas? And also if you wait, you can get the exact spec you want (assuming your ideal options don't cost too much!).

[Leo-RS]

I would love an RS6, but no matter which way I look at the numbers, they are one of Audis worst deprecating cars.

Are they?

Yes, by a long margin.

Considering you can buy a brand new no optioned car for £66k which this time last year had a 36 month residual of £46k, I found that incredible at nearly a 70% retained value. Since then, yes, the GFV dropped to £42k and then again to £38k when the PE was released.

RV is £37k after 3yrs. In order to retain desirability in the used market you need to fit 21's etc which takes the car back up to £70k min after discount. £70k minus £37k = c47% loss on a non PE.

The earliest press cars are July/August 2013 cars so now 3yrs old, cheapest I could find on Audi Used was £53k for a July 13 car and £52k on Pistonheads for the same.

Not sure why you think that's relevant. Do you think that's what these cars are trading for? I can tell you they aren't. A screen price has no relevance to CAP prices. These cars have lots & lots of margin in them whilst Audi try to fix the market so they aren't left in a financial shortfall as the GFV's are cashed in.

In addition, you're very unlikely ever going to be able to buy a car at trade price

You're missing the point completely. The OP asked about immediate shortfall and financial loss. Like it or not (which you clearly don't), WBAC are closer to values than you think. They beat each and every single dealer on mine for p/x quotes, and they are the ones seeing what goes through the Auction market. RV and auction prices have very little in common. All you end up with is a mix of two types of cars, one with lots of margin, one without. So this thread speculates how much of a loss the OP will take. Car is £80k screen price, it's entirely plausable a £30k residual drop will happen within 3 years. If I had the time I'd ring the dealer and ask for the RV figures, I bet I'm not far out.

Okay, seeing as you are getting quite defensive, I'll get equally defensive and tell you you're talking bollo*ks.

You clearly stated that the RS6 was one of Audi's worst depreciating cars by a long margin but I have provided evidence that they are in fact one of the very best by retaining 70% thereabouts after 36 months in a best case scenario.

Fact of the matter is, you were able to purchase an Audi RS6 this time last year for £66k and if you were to keep it for 36 months, Audi would buy it back from you for £46,300. You take those two sets of figures, you do the maths and then you tell me how much that car has lost in % terms. You do not need 21's or any other extras to secure the GFV, you would get £46.3k for it if it was a £66k base car or a £125k everything ticked optioned car. Depreciation is therefore down to the first buyer and how they spec the car, NOT Audi. If you want to keep depreciation low, you go easy on the options list.

Why are August 2013 cars important in determining the market in August 2016? I shouldn't really need to answer that, it's completely relevant, it's the only 3yr sample we have. The cheapest advertised 3yr old car is £52k, again another FACT. Okay, yes, you may get £1-2k knocked off that listed price but you're dreaming if you think you can negotiate 10%+ off these prices like you can with a new car. Sell the car privately if you don't want to be stung by dealer margins, you're making the assumption that everyone will just happily accept trade price, the cars value is whatever someone else will pay for it.

Strange you had that experience with WBAC, like I said, I've just put my details into both their page and the Audi valuation tool and the difference was £7.5k. You're welcome to test the 2 yourself. I couldn't get an Audi valuation on that registration you stated as the Audi valuation tool only works on 6mth + cars.

Okay, you have half a point if talking about current GFV's. Buying an RS6 today with todays residuals is more expensive than it was this time last year but I stated that in my post, the GFV's dropped from £46k to £42k then to £38k thereabouts today. These are the figures that you need to be taking worst case depreciation from. Buying a £65k car today (Discounts have improved slightly over last year) and getting a £38k residual would give you 58.4% retained. I'd hardly call that a disaster personally, anything over 50% is pretty good to be fair.

Fact of the matter is, depreciation is down to the first owner, spec the car high, you'll get stung, sell the car trade, you'll get stung but that's nothing at all to do with the RS6, that's how the car industry is as a whole. Nothing stopping you speccing lightly and selling privately.

The above is in response to your statement that the RS6 is one of Audi's worst performers in the depreciation tables and absolutely nothing to do with the O.P's specific car. if you want to get into an argument about depreciation then at least back that argument up with some facts

[kmpowell]

Okay, seeing as you are getting quite defensive, I'll get equally defensive and tell you you're talking bollo*ks.

I'm wasn't, and not, defensive. You just clearly don't understand the various ramificatons of RV v CAP v Screenprice, and how the market for these cars is controlled ultimately by Audi pricing.

Perhaps it's because you own a 2016 RS6, and you're rich enough not to worry about depreciation. But speak to any dealer and they will tell you the RS6 is one of Audis biggest depreciating cars. The RV and CAP prices prove this. Everything else you wrote is just mixed up supposition and, in your words, bollocks.

[Ian_C]

You are both right. You've got to stack the deck in your favour. If you are financing it and likely to use / take the GFV, don't go mad with options. And those who bought new 12 months back got offered a far better GFV than Audi offer now.

Financing it with Audi, you will get a lower rate of finance on an 80k (after discount) factory order than a used 80k windscreen price car. However, if you are financing it yourself, getting it for your mortgage rate, paying cash etc...... this element becomes irrelevant

[W8PMC]

Leo, that screen grab is somewhat irrelevant as for a start it's based on 5k miles per annum which is hardly realistic for an RS6. Increase the 5k per annum to a more realistic 15k pa or even just 10k & the figure drops a good chunk.

Also Audi is supporting the car so GFV is NOT the cars value after X number of months, it's the value Audi would give you when you chuck the car back. This again for this car is a bit of a gamble as in reality many Mctrs prefer to give the customer some equity in the car so thus set GFV at a more realistic value so you ideally don't have to find the chunky deposit yet again for your next Audi, in this case we all know that wouldn't occur.

Not sure I agree or disagree as to whether the RS6 is the worst depreciating car in the Audi line up as i'd guess that spot would be held by the S8/+, however in real terms the car's stacked up fairly well over its life & I'd be confident better than it's predecessors & some of its piers.

When all said & done & in relation to the OP's point, if I was buying i'd be opting for a new car built to the exact spec I wanted & take full advantage of all the discounts & incentives available as the OTR price would be lower & the likely relative future value higher. As I think someone else posted, if the OP doesn't want to wait & the spec of this car is exactly what they want then in the grand scheme of things the cost/value differences wouldn't be that great & he'll get the pleasure of getting the car now.

[Leo-RS]

Paul, my example was best case scenario and in that case the car depreciates approximately 30% over 3yrs and retains 70% of its value. It's there in black and white

Quick tip when setting the mileage term, choose 5k and pay the excess mileage charge.

Excess mileage is 9ppm + VAT so 10.8ppm. If you were contracted 5k/15k over 36 months and done 10/30k, the penalty would be £0.108 x 15000 = £1,620. I do have the Audi GFV figures for the 10k/30k example and they drop to £43.5k. Difference being £1620 or £2800. It's the oldest trick in the book

Depreciation only appears high in the RS6 because of its list price. Work it out from the heavily discounted price and it's really not that bad (or doesn't appear to be to me anyway)

[kmpowell]

Depreciation only appears high in the RS6 because of its list price. Work it out from the heavily discounted price and it's really not that bad (or doesn't appear to be to me anyway)

I'm not really sure how it can be explained any more simpler. RV is targeted to CAP values. A dealer will say they want you to have a lot of equity, but their target is RV equating to CAP so you're not in negative equity and they don't lose money. They will try and make it look like they are giving you equity by hiding it in discount on a new car, but if you were to go into an Audi dealer tomorrow and ask for the max discounts knocking about on an RS6, you would be offered as close to 'CAP clean' as the dealer would be able to get away with for any p/x. If you think otherwise, then you really can't be told.

In three years a box standard RS6 today has a predicted RV of £36.5k. That's a 54% loss.
In three years a £12k discounted standard RS6 loses 46%.

Throw in options and those numbers escalate hugely. Those are big loses on a box standard car, let alone one specced with £5k or so worth of options (21's, Sports exhaust, styling pack and DRC). As I said, you can argue all you want, but the reality is a very different kettle of fish.

Your screenshot is a year old. It's no coincidence that those RV's are now quoted on 2yr deals...

[W8PMC]

Paul, my example was best case scenario and in that case the car depreciates approximately 30% over 3yrs and retains 70% of its value. It's there in black and white

Quick tip when setting the mileage term, choose 5k and pay the excess mileage charge.

Excess mileage is 9ppm + VAT so 10.8ppm. If you were contracted 5k/15k over 36 months and done 10/30k, the penalty would be £0.108 x 15000 = £1,620. I do have the Audi GFV figures for the 10k/30k example and they drop to £43.5k. Difference being £1620 or £2800. It's the oldest trick in the book

Depreciation only appears high in the RS6 because of its list price. Work it out from the heavily discounted price and it's really not that bad (or doesn't appear to be to me anyway)

That's quite good then for the RS6 but isn't a PCP trick even with Audi, so either it's luck & Audi for whatever reason haven't set the PPM correctly relative to the cr or they've not calculated the GFV correctly, either way though a customer gain. I had an A8 a few years ago & it was cheaper to adjust the mileage with Audi finance & increase the payments than pay the excess & IIRC the XS was only 6ppm on that car (I could be wrong but it was surprisingly low).

On the Turbo S which I realise would be more mileage dependent than an RS6, but even so the RS will like any car suffer value wise with higher mileage, the XS is 45p per mile. I'm only using that example as are the most recent figures I can recall.

As above, I agree it isn't the worst depreciating car but backs up my points earlier In the year regarding the M5's position as the £75-£80k M5's were selling for £60-65k & thus 3yr old ones at £35-40k were hardly horrific on the depreciation front, but when viewed against the full list price did indeed look poor. Same applies to the RS6 along with most other cars in this sector, residual values viewed against discounted purchase prices stand up, but against list prices look poor. Audi chose to support the RS6 late in its lifecycle where as BMW & Mercedes went early.

[Ian_C]

The car was advertised at £91k. Price which i have agreed is £80,000 inc. GAP insurance. Is this a good deal. The reason i ask is as i am wary of the big loss i will take buying a car which is practically brand new, which i have always avoided. I dont know if i am following my head or my heart and just want some advice. TYI

To actual answer your question....

The 'RS246 Best Buy' would be a 12-18 month old facelift car for 60-65k. Let someone else stomach the initial depreciation!

[Golfather]

Here you go - providing it is EN16 SXT that I think you're talking about, here's what WBAC quote...

Screen Shot 2016-08-15 at 09.27.37.png

So a theoretical £20k loss straight away if the 'cap clean' p/x prices are in line with WBAC, which most of the time they are.

Book is actually £61,250

[kmpowell]

Here you go - providing it is EN16 SXT that I think you're talking about, here's what WBAC quote...

Screen Shot 2016-08-15 at 09.27.37.png

So a theoretical £20k loss straight away if the 'cap clean' p/x prices are in line with WBAC, which most of the time they are.

Book is actually £61,250

Not that far off WBAC then, just a £675 difference. So there you have it OP, if the £61,250 is 'CAP clean', indicitavly you have a minimum £20k shortfall to make up somewhere in its lifetime, if you buy that car for £80k.

So to answer your original question, I personally think your heart is leading you on this one, if your outlook (as you stated) is not to take hits residually.

[W8PMC]

As an aside to this & i appreciate a totally different type of car, but was pricing an S8+ on the Audi Config the other day & it worked out about the same price, even though it's close to being a £100k car list.

Audi were offering very low interest rates (i think 2.8%) & a £14k deposit contribution before any discount negotiated with the dealer. I know these are a little marmite but with performance on a apr with the RS6, a much higher spec vehicle with a higher list price, it could be a car worth considering & certainly where i'd be putting my money if in the market for such a vehicle.

[robf]

That's all very ll, but if you want an RS6, you want an RS6. I could have got a new M5 for WAY less than the Audi, but at the end of the day it was the RS6 i wanted! Let's face it, for many of us it is a emotional purchase much of the time.

[W8PMC]

That's all very ll, but if you want an RS6, you want an RS6. I could have got a new M5 for WAY less than the Audi, but at the end of the day it was the RS6 i wanted! Let's face it, for many of us it is a emotional purchase much of the time.

Agreed, but significantly more similarities between the S8+ & an RS6 than the M5 (or others in that sector). In the case of the S8+ a buyer would potentially be getting far more for their money, but absolutely if an Estates needed & a saloon doesn't fit the bill then no point or any other reason where the RS may be more desired.

[Wattsm666]

I bought the car Ruudy mentioned and his help was invaluable.

Needs a clean, but pictured.