Stage 2 boys

4.0 V8 40v biturbo TFSI - 553 bhp
4.0 V8 40v biturbo TFSI - 597 bhp (Performance)
User avatar
Paulm
Top Gear
Posts: 1661
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 12:23 pm
Location: Aberdeenshire

Re: Stage 2 boys

Post by Paulm » Sat Feb 06, 2016 12:16 pm

Leo-RS wrote:Tuning boxes will not remove the 155/174/189 limiters. In addition, they run base fuel maps which with a 40-50% increase in boost pressure thus a lot higher EGT's will run extremely lean and likely grenade on track or at high speed driving. I wouldn't like to go on a top speed run on a tuning box with lambda pegged at 0.9, would you? Yeah the standard inbuilt protection measures will likely put it into limp home mode before that happens but not always especially if continued abuse.

They can't adapt for Stage 2 type mods, limit boost on launch, adapt for higher octane etc, tuning boxes are extremely limited and if a fully customised map is at 100%, a tuning box will only be at 75%.

I would say MRC know how to do it :wink: Speak to them and see, there's a reason why the need 6hrs+ to tune these cars, yeah they can load in a base generic map and pump out 650 on the dyno but there's a reason they tune further, the cars leave with 680-710 with further tweaking and testing, dyno time. Pay £600 for a Litchfield generic 650hp tune or £1100 for a fully customised 700 tune? What's the point in going half way, tune it right, tune it once.

You want to know what the cars are doing EGT and fuelling wise at 6500 in 6th too, something you can't do on the road. Dyno time is not cheap, £1100 is reasonable I would say. I guess GTR tuning was a lot cheaper Paul, but GTR tuning market is a lot bigger, with a lot bigger market, more competition, prices tumble.
you need to do more reading re the boxes and their results. I do agree though a proper remap will always be better.

I wont be paying Litchfield £600 either lol

Tune it once tune it right is a good statement but I am not in the game of dropping my car off paying a load of cash then picking it up faster. Where is the fun and learning in that. A car for me is all about fun, playing, gaining knowledge and the fact I will have done 90% of it myself. Different people want different things out of their car and money.
BMW 540i
2018 GTR
F90 M5
X3MC
RS3 Saloon
RS7 FL best car I've owned. No faith in turbo oil screen (turbos failing) or sticking oil scraper ring causing missfires.
F10 M5 LCI still no rear grip lol
S7 black Edition Too big and heavy
S3 8V FL DSG 310ps, road noise is a joke
RS3 8P Rubbish
C7 RS6 Fantastic car but missed playing
GTR R35 800bhp, too extreme, crazy fast though
911 Turbo Remapped. Hated it
F10 M5, awesome but no rear grip
RS6 V10 700BHP crazy
Porsche Cayenne Turbo S 600bhp

doodlebug
Cruising
Posts: 5833
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:56 am
Location: Somewhere. Maybe.

Re: Stage 2 boys

Post by doodlebug » Sat Feb 06, 2016 12:21 pm

This may be a stupid question....but if you goose it what then? Just accept you'll have to cough up for the repairs? I can understand on an end user car, I struggle with that concept on a new car.

Leo-RS
3rd Gear
Posts: 352
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2015 2:48 pm
Location: Dundee / Aberdeen

Re: Stage 2 boys

Post by Leo-RS » Sat Feb 06, 2016 12:50 pm

But then you already have a lot of knowledge about tuning Paul ;)

If I had the time, it's something I'd like to get into too but don't think I'd ever trust myself to get it right on an RS6 :lol:

Ref tuning boxes, I did run one for a few months on a new S3, admittedly it performed well but when I went into look at the lambda tables, I couldn't help but think, I could blow this thing at the Nurburgring or on an autobahn. :shock: :lol:

I know there are a few options available on the BMW cars but from what I gather they're a lot stricter on tuning that what Audi are so a lot are forced to go down that path.

Doodlebug, a 2nd ecu ;) You can swap them out on an RS6 in less than 60secs, just two plugs, no bolts, easy access, very easy to do. Even in the event that you did not have a 2nd ecu, you could get the initial one reflashed back to standard with all traces of any tuning wiped including TD1 flags. It's not a big deal to be honest.

I think with normal Stage 1 and 2 type tuning, failures are very rare, I'd think you would have to be extremely unlucky to suffer major failure at the hands of having a remap. When you start bolting on bigger turbos and stage 3 onwards tuning, then yes, this is when I think you overstep the mark.
Last edited by Leo-RS on Sat Feb 06, 2016 12:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
MY16 Audi RS6

doodlebug
Cruising
Posts: 5833
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:56 am
Location: Somewhere. Maybe.

Re: Stage 2 boys

Post by doodlebug » Sat Feb 06, 2016 12:52 pm

So you'd try and claim on the warranty....wow. That's plain and simple fraud!! I cannot believe dealers would be that stupid.

Leo-RS
3rd Gear
Posts: 352
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2015 2:48 pm
Location: Dundee / Aberdeen

Re: Stage 2 boys

Post by Leo-RS » Sat Feb 06, 2016 12:56 pm

I never said that Doodlebug, I said that's a way that people can get around it which was the question you were asking. Manufacturers will never be able to protect themselves against owners running secondary ecu's. In fact, that's the way the tuning industry is now going down due to the restrictions that they are putting in place hence the use of tuning boxes being used now.

Me personally? I'd go Stage 3, get an engine rebuild and build a monster, I know quite a few specialist engine builders :thumbs:

Warranty is up at 36mths anyway, what happens after that, you're on your own anyway.
MY16 Audi RS6

doodlebug
Cruising
Posts: 5833
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:56 am
Location: Somewhere. Maybe.

Re: Stage 2 boys

Post by doodlebug » Sat Feb 06, 2016 1:04 pm

Fair enough, I know it's a debate that's been had. It's just grossly dishonest and as we've with insurance, it'll just result in prices going up and/or terms becoming more onerous.

Manufacturers will play the game and ultimately hold the cards.

Tuning isn't for me anyhow, I'd rather buy a better car in the first place and have the manufacturer support if it does go tits up.

RIV
Cruising
Posts: 5122
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:27 pm

Re: Stage 2 boys

Post by RIV » Sat Feb 06, 2016 1:30 pm

[quote][
Fair enough, I know it's a debate that's been had. It's just grossly dishonest and as we've with insurance, it'll just result in prices going up and/or terms becoming more onerous./quote]
So how many people do you know of that have blown their Rs up from a tune??
Not many if any I would say. Hardly a wide spread insurance fraud :roll:

doodlebug
Cruising
Posts: 5833
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:56 am
Location: Somewhere. Maybe.

Re: Stage 2 boys

Post by doodlebug » Sat Feb 06, 2016 1:34 pm

There's always a first.....

User avatar
Paulm
Top Gear
Posts: 1661
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 12:23 pm
Location: Aberdeenshire

Re: Stage 2 boys

Post by Paulm » Sat Feb 06, 2016 2:03 pm

doodlebug wrote:This may be a stupid question....but if you goose it what then? Just accept you'll have to cough up for the repairs? I can understand on an end user car, I struggle with that concept on a new car.
Yeah, been doing this for over 30 years. If I break it I will fix it no big deal. That's what R&D is all about.

I got the same kind of reposes when I ripped out my GTR engine and slapped on bigger turbos. GTR site was all Litchfield, Litchfield, Litchfield, on here its all MRC and that's fine. I like doing it my own way and sharing my experiences that's kind of what these forums are all about, no??
BMW 540i
2018 GTR
F90 M5
X3MC
RS3 Saloon
RS7 FL best car I've owned. No faith in turbo oil screen (turbos failing) or sticking oil scraper ring causing missfires.
F10 M5 LCI still no rear grip lol
S7 black Edition Too big and heavy
S3 8V FL DSG 310ps, road noise is a joke
RS3 8P Rubbish
C7 RS6 Fantastic car but missed playing
GTR R35 800bhp, too extreme, crazy fast though
911 Turbo Remapped. Hated it
F10 M5, awesome but no rear grip
RS6 V10 700BHP crazy
Porsche Cayenne Turbo S 600bhp

User avatar
Paulm
Top Gear
Posts: 1661
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 12:23 pm
Location: Aberdeenshire

Re: Stage 2 boys

Post by Paulm » Sat Feb 06, 2016 2:08 pm

Leo-RS wrote:But then you already have a lot of knowledge about tuning Paul ;)

If I had the time, it's something I'd like to get into too but don't think I'd ever trust myself to get it right on an RS6 :lol:

Ref tuning boxes, I did run one for a few months on a new S3, admittedly it performed well but when I went into look at the lambda tables, I couldn't help but think, I could blow this thing at the Nurburgring or on an autobahn. :shock: :lol:

I know there are a few options available on the BMW cars but from what I gather they're a lot stricter on tuning that what Audi are so a lot are forced to go down that path.

Doodlebug, a 2nd ecu ;) You can swap them out on an RS6 in less than 60secs, just two plugs, no bolts, easy access, very easy to do. Even in the event that you did not have a 2nd ecu, you could get the initial one reflashed back to standard with all traces of any tuning wiped including TD1 flags. It's not a big deal to be honest.

I think with normal Stage 1 and 2 type tuning, failures are very rare, I'd think you would have to be extremely unlucky to suffer major failure at the hands of having a remap. When you start bolting on bigger turbos and stage 3 onwards tuning, then yes, this is when I think you overstep the mark.
Yeah I am kind of lucky with my job, it allows me time to play and learn

I don't really trust the "normal" tuning boxes. Burger Tuning has done a huge amount of R&D and has had mental results with the JB3 and JB4. I was pushing them to start on VAG but they refused stating they have way too much work as it is on BMW never mind looking at other makes. pity.
BMW 540i
2018 GTR
F90 M5
X3MC
RS3 Saloon
RS7 FL best car I've owned. No faith in turbo oil screen (turbos failing) or sticking oil scraper ring causing missfires.
F10 M5 LCI still no rear grip lol
S7 black Edition Too big and heavy
S3 8V FL DSG 310ps, road noise is a joke
RS3 8P Rubbish
C7 RS6 Fantastic car but missed playing
GTR R35 800bhp, too extreme, crazy fast though
911 Turbo Remapped. Hated it
F10 M5, awesome but no rear grip
RS6 V10 700BHP crazy
Porsche Cayenne Turbo S 600bhp

User avatar
Paulm
Top Gear
Posts: 1661
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 12:23 pm
Location: Aberdeenshire

Re: Stage 2 boys

Post by Paulm » Sat Feb 06, 2016 2:10 pm

doodlebug wrote:There's always a first.....
me, me, me :lol: :lol: blowing up that is not fraud :thumb:
BMW 540i
2018 GTR
F90 M5
X3MC
RS3 Saloon
RS7 FL best car I've owned. No faith in turbo oil screen (turbos failing) or sticking oil scraper ring causing missfires.
F10 M5 LCI still no rear grip lol
S7 black Edition Too big and heavy
S3 8V FL DSG 310ps, road noise is a joke
RS3 8P Rubbish
C7 RS6 Fantastic car but missed playing
GTR R35 800bhp, too extreme, crazy fast though
911 Turbo Remapped. Hated it
F10 M5, awesome but no rear grip
RS6 V10 700BHP crazy
Porsche Cayenne Turbo S 600bhp

RIV
Cruising
Posts: 5122
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:27 pm

Re: Stage 2 boys

Post by RIV » Sat Feb 06, 2016 2:39 pm

We as a consumer are more likely to be taken for a ride by the dealer, than us defrauding them

RS6chris!
Cruising
Posts: 3845
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 8:55 pm
Location: North East(Teesside).

Re: Stage 2 boys

Post by RS6chris! » Sat Feb 06, 2016 2:42 pm

RIV wrote:We as a consumer are more likely to be taken for a ride by the dealer, than us defrauding them


Good point! Never thought of it that way!
Panamera Turbo S e hybrid (again)
RS6 C8 carbon black(merlin)
Panamera Turbo S e hybrid
RS6 C8 launch edition
R8 V10 plus
C7 RS6 PE dynamic pack plus
C7 RS6
Porsche Panamera Turbo
C6 RS6 AVANT
RS4 B7
Golf R32 mk 5
BMW M3 E46
Golf R32 mk 5
Golf GTI mk 5
VW Passat 130d 4 motion
VW bora 150pd
Ford Mondeo Ghia X V6
Ford Focus zetec
Rover 214!!

zzz
2nd Gear
Posts: 109
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2016 12:02 am

Re: Stage 2 boys

Post by zzz » Sat Feb 06, 2016 4:11 pm

I've had a basic map on almost everything I've owned in the last 10 years. Don't think I'll be doing the rs6 any time soon. Maybe in a couple of years once I'm used to or bored with the power.
Regarding the secondary ECU, assuming you did pop your engine after a bad map and simply replaced with the virgin ECU - forgive my lack of knowledge - but would that ECU not say "not been used in 6moths pal" to the technicians?

Leo-RS
3rd Gear
Posts: 352
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2015 2:48 pm
Location: Dundee / Aberdeen

Re: Stage 2 boys

Post by Leo-RS » Sat Feb 06, 2016 9:53 pm

b7rs4saloon wrote:Spoke with MRC.

Anybody who's had their plugs done as part of the upgrade care to share which ones that have been fitted? Will probably do these myself along with oil & filter change, fuel filter & fit the ITG air filter, then it can just go to MRC for software. I want to reduce the waiting time as il be hanging about while they do the work

Thanks
NGK Racing 4654 plugs

http://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-64237-ngk-s ... -4654.aspx
MY16 Audi RS6

Post Reply

Return to “RS6 (C7 Typ 4G) 2013-2018”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 39 guests