Anyone getting a good deal...?

[S4WON]

I dunno. I think marketting types talk about halo product and the suchlike, but i'm not convinced.

I think broadly it comes down to whether the brand is cool, recognisable not that it has a halo product.

Consider this list:
http://www.forbes.com/powerful-brands/list/

how many of them have a halo product? and i'm not just assuming halo is some 100k+ item as I understand that isn't the point.

Surely the point is more about what they brand conveys to you.

for me, for example, Audi means (in no particular order)

* German
* Well engineered
* reliable

and luckily for me I can afford a broad range of their products and as another poster says, the A4 platform suits my needs ,it really has nothing whatsoever to do with the R8 and as I can afford any A4 I want, I'll chose the "best" = RS, performance & trimmings.

In summary and imho "Halo product <> brand strength"

I think Halo products are just epeens and almost a thank you to the organisation itself. look at the GTR, disaster economically, i really dont think the average nissan owner even knows the GTR exists and is certianly not more likely to make me a buy a Micra in fact, the GTR has put me off the brand if anything.

just my 2 pence

[S4WON]

ANd for those who haven't looked..

BMW is #11 on the list and Audi is #43!

Nissan #78!

[W8PMC]

I dunno. I think marketting types talk about halo product and the suchlike, but i'm not convinced.

I think broadly it comes down to whether the brand is cool, recognisable not that it has a halo product.

Consider this list:
http://www.forbes.com/powerful-brands/list/

how many of them have a halo product? and i'm not just assuming halo is some 100k+ item as I understand that isn't the point.

Surely the point is more about what they brand conveys to you.

for me, for example, Audi means (in no particular order)

* German
* Well engineered
* reliable

and luckily for me I can afford a broad range of their products and as another poster says, the A4 platform suits my needs ,it really has nothing whatsoever to do with the R8 and as I can afford any A4 I want, I'll chose the "best" = RS, performance & trimmings.

In summary and imho "Halo product <> brand strength"

I think Halo products are just epeens and almost a thank you to the organisation itself. look at the GTR, disaster economically, i really dont think the average nissan owner even knows the GTR exists and is certianly not more likely to make me a buy a Micra in fact, the GTR has put me off the brand if anything.

just my 2 pence

Kind of agree with the exception of your Nissan GT-R point as i doubt Nissan had other models in there thoughts when they produced the GT-R. It's a one of a kind vehicle & doesn't really integrate into the brand. As the current saying goes, who'd pay £110k for a Nissan which is what the new Nismo variant will cost. Perhaps the 370z is Nissan's sports car, but not really the GT-R as if anything the badge is purely a distraction.

The RS's, M's & AMG's are range toppers as each range has a huge spread of models, that doesn't apply to the GT-R.

Having owned one, they really are quite a specialist vehicle but where do you see they've been a disaster economically for Nissan? Now going into it's 6th year of production & still selling fairly well & have sold consistently well over 1000 units each year since launch which i'm pretty sure is more than BMW & Audi have sold equivalent RS's & M's (of similar value).

[HYFR]

halo products are important

motor manufacturers place great weight on brand consideration (not awareness, consideration)

i.e. you are asked the question, would you consider buying an Audi

aks Billy Bob Barry on the street who is not your average Pistonhead … he might pause for a second, his brain might bring the dyne Ad and Iron Man to the front of his mind and say, Yes !

then he might go off an end up with an A1 when otherwise he would have bought a Mini or Polo or someone tin of <beep>

[S4WON]

where do you see they've been a disaster economically for Nissan?

It is very possible that i'm making this up and have been caught out by some elabroate forum BS, but............. I defintiely heard somewhere, at some point that Nissan "lose a lot of money" on each GTR sold, and at a 1000 units (or so), when you consider the R&D required to develop, let alone manufacture, its quite possible.

[HYFR]

It depends how you account for the R&D as to whether a particular product looses money or not

Accountants ... They are magicians !

[doodlebug]

Accountants ... They are magicians !

Other descriptions are available!

[HYFR]

Geniuses

[W8PMC]

where do you see they've been a disaster economically for Nissan?

It is very possible that i'm making this up and have been caught out by some elabroate forum BS, but............. I defintiely heard somewhere, at some point that Nissan "lose a lot of money" on each GTR sold, and at a 1000 units (or so), when you consider the R&D required to develop, let alone manufacture, its quite possible.

I think you probably have been caught out as according to the Oracle of all thing (t'internet) the GT-R has sold just over 1000 units per annum since launch (although has tailed off this year) so that would suggest around the 5000 unit mark in just the UK which for a £70k single variant car isn't too shabby. The RS6 appears to have been selling around the same number of units.

Given how much Main Dealer parts/service etc on a GT-R cost i, doubt very much that Nissan lose anything on a GT-R, in fact quite the opposite.

[DragonRR]

Audi are very good at keeping the RS6 cars prices high as they limit production in such a way that dealer demo's & early 2nd hand cars keep residuals high as most folk (including me) who decide they want a car want it now. This backfires when these Audi's reach 12-18mths old & the reality kicks in.

Agreed although they aren't as good as Porsche who only import 7k cars in total into the UK per year (according to sales men inside and outside of Porsche) which keeps residuals and new prices pretty high.

I have absolutely no idea what kind of numbers of RS6 C7s are coming into the UK but several dealers gave me a delivery date of May to June when I enquired about a new RS6 C7 in early November. Fortunately (for me) I happened on a dealer who had already ordered one and was still just able to change the spec of at least some key options. A six month plus waiting list makes me *think* that the cars are selling well even if it is because they have simply supplied them in low numbers!

Despite a good discount comparable to the one I received when I purchased my current pre-reg M5 I expect significant depreciation and would be pretty foolish to expect otherwise!

The comments on the interior looks of these cars are interesting. I found the new RS6 to be pretty stunning inside but a lot of that impression came from the fact that the carbon inlays look fantastic (imo) and the honeycomb contrast stitching really stands out. To sit in the car seemed quite different to the M5 and I wouldn't say overall that one is really better than the other. I did find the standard seats in the RS6 a little harder than the M5 and overall the RS6 felt a bit "sportier".

I've no doubt they're selling well enough, but the lead time is build restriction not high volume of sales. As i said before, Audi always do this with RS's as it keeps demand & early residuals artificially high which is why ex-demo cars still price high but after say 12-18mths the residual free fall that all these cars attract kicks in.

My frustration & confusion is why Audi see fit to operate this way whilst BMW & Merc have taken the decision to get their Premium models out on the road. I prefer to feel i've got a good overall financial deal & Audi were not even in the game let alone playing it. I'd guess that BMW & Merc are currently selling 4:1 M5's & E63's to Audi RS6's & whilst this can be seen in different lights, when push came to shove whichever car you prefer & for whatever reason i couldn't pay almost double for a same OTR price car & be happy so chose the M5. My decision was based on common & financial sense as i didn't even bother pitching the cars side by side to compare when the deals were being discussed.

Just spotted you have a MY12 F10 M5? In the LCi model i believe minor changes were made to the M-DCT & Rear Diff as well as the car now coming from the factory with MPSS tyres as standard. Were quite a few smaller cosmetic, software & a few items that were previously options are now standard. I doubt this will make much of a difference but i've not driven an earlier F10 so couldn't compare.

Looking forward to hearing about your incoming RS6:)

My build date for the M5 was August 2012 from memory, there was a minor change to certain items in very late 2012 (like the windscreen camera assembly) which is how I found out about the change. My tyres are MPSS, 20". As you say the LCi update has quite a few changes, mainly hidden ones. I wouldn't expect grip to change very much over mine because, in the wet or icy conditions, it is always fighting the fact that there isn't enough weight on the back and you are pushing 280bhp per wheel on very wide summer tyres

I come from a different direction since I have had quite a few BMWs and only one Audi. I'm a big BMW fan really and love the F10 M5, the way it looks, drives, the interior is comfortable and solid; it's just a brilliant car. If I didn't live up a hill I would almost certainly have gone for either the M6 GC or the competition M5 and I might even have kept my current M5 for a bit longer. Having test driven the RS6 one of my first reactions was to question how Audi justify such a premium over the M5. It is very slightly more up to date (perhaps) it DOES have 4WD and Audi have made a bit of extra effort to make it look a bit different to the standard A6 whereas BMW seem to think that minor changes to the front spoiler and rear will do.

The Audi is better for me personally at this time and I like a change! I would be beyond surprised if you regretted your M5 purchase at all.

[W8PMC]

I may well be eating my words once the snow arrives;) Just hoping the new M5 performs as well as I hear in poorer weather, but it is certainly requiring a driving relearn for me.

Let us know how the RS6 is when it arrives?

[DragonRR]

I may well be eating my words once the snow arrives;) Just hoping the new M5 performs as well as I hear in poorer weather, but it is certainly requiring a driving relearn for me.

Let us know how the RS6 is when it arrives?

When I was making the decision as to whether to change or not I discussed the winter tyre option with a couple of dealers. They both said that the car would be OK in snow with snow tyres fitted. As you probably know BMW do a deal where you buy the winter tyres and wheels set and they'll store them, stick them on and off your car for around £50 per cycle. I very nearly decided to do this but then realised I fancied a change anyway.

I've just noticed that we've been posting all this stuff under the same nicks on the m5boards anyway!

I'll post when I've had a bit of time with the RS6 which will hopefully be by late Jan Let me know what you think to the M5!

[W8PMC]

I may well be eating my words once the snow arrives;) Just hoping the new M5 performs as well as I hear in poorer weather, but it is certainly requiring a driving relearn for me.

Let us know how the RS6 is when it arrives?

When I was making the decision as to whether to change or not I discussed the winter tyre option with a couple of dealers. They both said that the car would be OK in snow with snow tyres fitted. As you probably know BMW do a deal where you buy the winter tyres and wheels set and they'll store them, stick them on and off your car for around £50 per cycle. I very nearly decided to do this but then realised I fancied a change anyway.

I've just noticed that we've been posting all this stuff under the same nicks on the m5boards anyway!

I'll post when I've had a bit of time with the RS6 which will hopefully be by late Jan Let me know what you think to the M5!

I spotted that too & it made me chuckle.

Have been thinking about the Winter tyre scenario, but although not a huge expense to get a decent winter wheel/tyre setup & i could possibly use the same spare set of wheels with sticky rubber for track days, a piece of me thinks that to use such a car in the UK should NOT require a costly winter setup. Agree if i was in Northern Europe it's essential but Lancashire living should not give rise to this requirement & at some point you'd think winter tyres would become law (as per other countries). I did hear that the £50 is actually £100 for the M5 (that may be with 20" wheels) as 1 crate will not hold 4 wheels so you need 2 crates at £50 each per hit.

If really bad conditions then i'll take the wives Q5 or stay indoors:) Looking fwd to hearing your thoughts on the 2 cars?

[Akira]

I don't usually post in good deal threads as my sentiment is generally that as long as you're happy with the deal you got then its good enough

Notts Audi gave me a total of £9k contribution to the car along with 3 years GAP cover thrown in, spec of car:

Phantom Black Crystal Effect
Dynamic Pack
Matt Alu pack
21" Titanium Wheels
Sports Exhaust
Panaramic Sunroof
HUD
Advanced Key
Bluetooth High
Park Assist
Privacy Glass

[doodlebug]

I think I'm nearly there. Looked at R8s, but discounted as I just don't drive enough on my own. Tempted by 997 Turbo (as you can get a kid in the back), but I would just be pining after the 991 which is superior in every respect. The 997 is an awesome bit of kit, but....

So, back to the RS6, which having driven a couple of times now I think is an awesome bit of kit.

Thanks to Abyss for putting me in touch with Kings Lynn who have been fantastic, if only my local made the same effort.

Spec something along these lines, though still have to nail this down.

Estoril with black/black interior
21s in Titanium
Alu pack
Dynamic Pack plus
Adaptive cruise/stop-go/pre-sense front
Advanced Key with hands free boot
Parking Advanced with top-view (for the ladies)
Homelink
Heat and sound insulating glass with privacy
Heated front and rear seats
Phone prep high
Power door closure
Blinds/boot fixing/boot mat

Toying with carbon mirrors, but £1500 is a bit steep.