Stage 2 GTR

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Re: Stage 2 GTR

Post by bam_bam » Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:52 pm

Nickyboy wrote:Maybe he was being over cautious then.
He was being a faggot Datsun driver.
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Re: Stage 2 GTR

Post by Nickyboy » Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:09 pm

Charming as ever.
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Re: Stage 2 GTR

Post by Nickyboy » Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:13 pm

Apparently over 120 degrees and you need to change the gearbox oil. You can run higher temps but as long as you change it. I actually remember Ben at Shark performance telling me this. Bit of a limitation to a track car really.
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Re: Stage 2 GTR

Post by bam_bam » Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:15 pm

Nickyboy wrote:Bit of a limitation to a track car really.
Understatement.
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Re: Stage 2 GTR

Post by Nudenut » Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:51 pm

Not cheap oil change either.... but then nout is !!
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Re: Stage 2 GTR

Post by PhilT » Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:10 pm

Mine didn't go over 110 at Spa. I was doing about 7 or 8 laps which was sufficient for my body and mind.
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Re: Stage 2 GTR

Post by W8PMC » Mon Oct 15, 2012 10:10 pm

D_K wrote:
W8PMC wrote:
D_K wrote:mapped C6 is as fast as a 630PS GTR ........ in a straight line
When you say mapped, you mean a Stage 4 upwards (North or 780bhp)?

IIRC, Mr F's car was around 800bhp. My GT-R was just nudging 600bhp at that time. Can't recall if the other RS6 was Stage1 or 2. A stock GT-R will be hitting 62 in 3 secs, so any RS6 is going to have to be putting out some considerable additional power to keep up in a straight line.

http://www.vmax200.com/vmax-overboost.php

Stock vs. stock

http://www.fastestlaps.com/cars/audi_rs6_avant_c6.html
http://www.fastestlaps.com/cars/nissan_gt-r_2011.html
Oh here we go ...


NO not stage 4!!

Stage 2+. Map, filters and secondary decat/milly

I was at vmax 9 days ago and sat my very arse in a C6 that went up against TWO 630PS GTR's and yes while the GTR will get to 60 first due to launch control and DSG, the C6 hit the timing beams FIRST and both clocked 195mph on the beams

Get over your GTR obsession!
& you your Audi one my friend :jump:

So i was at the VMAX 1 or 2 before & hit 197 through the beams with just shy of 600bhp & the circa 800bhp C6 was 1mph slower through the beams so i guess that proves without doubt that a 'mapped' C6 would have no chance, although one with North of 750bhp would start to reign in a GT-R once over 150mph. So in every area where it matters the Datsun would destroy a mapped C6 with the exception of a brave high speed run on an Autobahn :jump_clap:
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Re: Stage 2 GTR

Post by W8PMC » Mon Oct 15, 2012 10:15 pm

speedfr38ky wrote:
Nickyboy wrote:
D_K wrote:mapped C6 is as fast as a 630PS GTR ........ in a straight line
Not off the line it isn't. Mid range maybe, I'll just have to take your word for that.
The two GTR's we took on at Vmax in my C6 recently in the dry were both 630PS-650PS cars. In both cases they only just pipped us to the quarter mile by a car length (due to launch and quicker shifting box), and the C6 took both of them down the two mile stretch from a side by side roll on, DK was with me on one of those runs, so do take his word for it and mine.
Took them down the 2 mile stretch as in the same speed through the traps? My experiences are a little different & with less power, however no doubting with the extra 4 cylinders, 1600cc of displacement & i assume around 130bhp that North of the ton an RS6 would start to gain advantage, however where apart from VMAX is that going to be of real benefit? Just look at the various comparison track times.
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Re: Stage 2 GTR

Post by W8PMC » Mon Oct 15, 2012 10:23 pm

Nudenut wrote:
Nickyboy wrote:Spoke with the GTR owner as yes it was him. He said it was his first track day so was braking earlier than he should have and had his gearbox heating up to 117 degrees and I think in the GTR this means clam down a little. Excuses, excuses he said and then said he was a bit of a cack driver. It certainly showed at Combe when his first session was quite slow and the third was a lot faster. He said he then went round with an MSV instructor and got an extra 3 seconds per lap. He just bought these as well:

http://www.litchfieldimports.co.uk/niss ... on_kit.asp

Any idea how these will compare to ceramics on the R8?

Same may apply to you of course Nudenut. Either way get me in that R8!
Mmmmm ok, lol, he wasn't slow by any means, don't worry I wasn't having a pop ;-)

Re. brakes then I can't comment on the GTR, have heard the std setup can suffer a bit from fade on track but have seen many GTR's complete 15/20min sessions on track many times during a day even at Spa, ceramics don't nessasarily give better braking just resistance to fade and longevity (I have done 2 x VMax/Snetterton/Silverstone/Cadwell Pk/Brands/2 x 'Ring in my car this year and brake pads are hardly touched, I can run for 30min+ without fade and only come in as i'm knackered)... you shouldn't compare the two cars IMHO.. the R8 V10 is near 300Kg lighter and mid-engined with NA engine pushing 600PS and I was on 888's... I'd have been very disappointed if the GTR had the legs on me on a twisty circuit even with it's elec wizardry. I always think of the Panamera when comparing cars with the GTR, had same issue with my C6, every Porka turbo owner wanted to compare their car with my 2t Avant... cars are for driving and enjoying, petrol heads will always compare speeds regardless but it's feel that counts.
Standard brakes on a GT-R are excellent on road, but do as with most road cars std set-ups suffer a little when pushed on-track. TBH a stock R8 with standard brakes wouldn't last any longer & i've driven many fast Audi's/BMW's on track with stock & aftermarket brakes.

You'd fully expect a 300kg lighter car that has the same power & better brakes to be quicker on track & likewise i'd be pissed if i was being hassled.
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Re: Stage 2 GTR

Post by W8PMC » Mon Oct 15, 2012 10:26 pm

D_K wrote:im sure when i was pax with PhiT in his GTR round Cadwell he would get worried when his gearbox oil got to 140degrees
If it got to 140 degrees he'd have been shitting himself as that's 20 degrees above safe operating temps.
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Re: Stage 2 GTR

Post by speedfr38ky » Sat Oct 20, 2012 1:29 pm

W8PMC wrote:
& you your Audi one my friend :jump:

So i was at the VMAX 1 or 2 before & hit 197 through the beams with just shy of 600bhp & the circa 800bhp C6 was 1mph slower through the beams so i guess that proves without doubt that a 'mapped' C6 would have no chance, although one with North of 750bhp would start to reign in a GT-R once over 150mph. So in every area where it matters the Datsun would destroy a mapped C6 with the exception of a brave high speed run on an Autobahn :jump_clap:[/quote]

As regards your previous quote, Destroy a mapped c6??... Bit of an overstatement don't you think? perhaps the one you went up against wasn't 700+ and was only mapped to around 640 like many are. I know what i saw and what happened on both my runs against two different tuned GTR's. The GTR's only got the jump down the quarter, which after about 90mph the rs6 held them both, hardly what id call "destroying" despite the GTR's rep for 0-60 times and launch with an incredible gearbox traction etc. Then down the two miler dead evens upto 150 before the c6 pulled ahead conclusively. Got thumbs up and wowzers from both GTR drivers. Where it matters is when u pull up next to me on a motorway and u get the shock of your life whilst Im watching jeremy kyle on the digi tv. On a track its very different as the GTR was designed to do the laps faster than anything, but not "in every area where it matters". Totally disagree. On the road a mapped c6 would keep up with a stock or tuned GTR quite capably.
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Re: Stage 2 GTR

Post by W8PMC » Sun Oct 21, 2012 12:31 pm

speedfr38ky wrote:
W8PMC wrote:
& you your Audi one my friend :jump:

So i was at the VMAX 1 or 2 before & hit 197 through the beams with just shy of 600bhp & the circa 800bhp C6 was 1mph slower through the beams so i guess that proves without doubt that a 'mapped' C6 would have no chance, although one with North of 750bhp would start to reign in a GT-R once over 150mph. So in every area where it matters the Datsun would destroy a mapped C6 with the exception of a brave high speed run on an Autobahn :jump_clap:
As regards your previous quote, Destroy a mapped c6??... Bit of an overstatement don't you think? perhaps the one you went up against wasn't 700+ and was only mapped to around 640 like many are. I know what i saw and what happened on both my runs against two different tuned GTR's. The GTR's only got the jump down the quarter, which after about 90mph the rs6 held them both, hardly what id call "destroying" despite the GTR's rep for 0-60 times and launch with an incredible gearbox traction etc. Then down the two miler dead evens upto 150 before the c6 pulled ahead conclusively. Got thumbs up and wowzers from both GTR drivers. Where it matters is when u pull up next to me on a motorway and u get the shock of your life whilst Im watching jeremy kyle on the digi tv. On a track its very different as the GTR was designed to do the laps faster than anything, but not "in every area where it matters". Totally disagree. On the road a mapped c6 would keep up with a stock or tuned GTR quite capably.[/quote]

Looks like you're saying the same i did:)

Past say 120mph i can totally accept a mapped C6 RS6 would start to pull on a GT-R & if de-limited i guess it could catch up around 170-180 (like that's a real world scenario).
Of course, depending on each car's state of tune & modifications it's next to impossible to know which would be the quicker under various conditions taking into account the variety of upgrades available for both cars, however my experiences against highly tuned appear different to yours & the original reference was 'destroy a mapped C6', which i'd class as a good 100bhp down on a highly tuned example. As you can see below in the VMAX link, my GT-R was running around 600bhp & IIRC T2 FOO is running a tad more power than a pure remapped C6 (stage 1) & also i believe also runs with Ceramics among other upgrades. If the GT-R was quicker off the line, quicker down to the bottom bend & faster up the main straight with a higher trap speed, at what point would the C6 have caught up & that's a C6 with

OOTB a stock GT-R will clear 62 in 3.5secs for an early car & 2.9secs for a current model. See the stats for the stock cars below.

Stock vs. stock the data is conclusive & tuned vs. tuned the same applies, however tuned vs. stock is somewhat of a tricky one to call.

http://www.vmax200.com/vmax-overboost.php

http://www.fastestlaps.com/cars/audi_rs6_avant_c6.html
http://www.fastestlaps.com/cars/nissan_gt-r.html
http://www.fastestlaps.com/cars/nissan_gt-r_2011.html
http://www.fastestlaps.com/cars/nissan_gt-r_mk_iii.html

I wasn't at the VMAX below so can't comment if David used Launch Control, however again it's pretty conclusive & i'd say 777bhp for the RS6 is a little more than just a remapped car. IIRC David did a 196mph through the timing beams, but as you can see it's a tad damp.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfMnkTZY ... re=related

This one the C6 even got a decent jump at the start.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpn3Yqkv ... ure=fvwrel

These 2 cars will never be apples vs. apples & whether you're an Audi fanbois or GT-R (i've owned far more Audi's), they're meant for very different purposes.
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Re: Stage 2 GTR

Post by Noyjatat » Sun Oct 21, 2012 12:47 pm

These threads always seem to end up being who saw what and where, when it comes to any comparisons. I think it's always going to come down to a number of things. The big one would be which GTR as the newest edition is a different car to the pre 2012, the drivers, the conditions and obviously what has been done to each car. As a matter of interest what have these cars been running at ten of the best?

With the various events for the tuned cars there it seems the car has to have the ability to adapt from one event to the next giving a better overall balanced indication of how good the car is. You also find some real surprises when it comes to the overall results.

If you looking at VMax and top speeds check oh this link of 'The Hulk' it's pretty epic especially when you look at the distance it used to reach top speed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EV6JHAAy ... ata_player

I am not trying to start an argument on here as both are epic cars but I feel the GTR is always going to have a little bit of an edge once you start comparing none stock cars. Far more tuners (especially from its home country) are going to work on modifications for it. It comes from a line of cars which founded the tuning car culture we have. The audis have a great race history on track, road, ice and snow and pretty much everywhere else. It's tunability from this heritage is not doubted, it's just that in comparison there is a lot less companies willing to out in the time and hours to modify it to its absolute limits.

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Re: Stage 2 GTR

Post by W8PMC » Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:34 am

Noyjatat wrote:These threads always seem to end up being who saw what and where, when it comes to any comparisons. I think it's always going to come down to a number of things. The big one would be which GTR as the newest edition is a different car to the pre 2012, the drivers, the conditions and obviously what has been done to each car. As a matter of interest what have these cars been running at ten of the best?

With the various events for the tuned cars there it seems the car has to have the ability to adapt from one event to the next giving a better overall balanced indication of how good the car is. You also find some real surprises when it comes to the overall results.

If you looking at VMax and top speeds check oh this link of 'The Hulk' it's pretty epic especially when you look at the distance it used to reach top speed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EV6JHAAy ... ata_player

I am not trying to start an argument on here as both are epic cars but I feel the GTR is always going to have a little bit of an edge once you start comparing none stock cars. Far more tuners (especially from its home country) are going to work on modifications for it. It comes from a line of cars which founded the tuning car culture we have. The audis have a great race history on track, road, ice and snow and pretty much everywhere else. It's tunability from this heritage is not doubted, it's just that in comparison there is a lot less companies willing to out in the time and hours to modify it to its absolute limits.
Great points:) The Hulk is a little special, although i'm not sure it's still their highest power as they've just RR'd a customers car that's output is circa 1400bhp (link below) :bigblink: It was SVM who did some of the work on my car & as a tuning firm they're pretty special. Saying that, their's a very good choice of quality tuners in the UK for GT-R's.

http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/170519-f-man ... ecord.html
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Re: Stage 2 GTR

Post by speedfr38ky » Tue Oct 23, 2012 10:32 am

Fair points and evidence, differing results must just depend on the individual cars then. Evotech c6 cars are mapped to over 700bhp but they run restricted torque of 800nm. MRC mapped cars like mine run a lot more nearer 960nm so theres a major difference right there hence a totally different result to the vids posted.
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