Considering a GTR, but is it too good?
Considering a GTR, but is it too good?
Hi guys,
Posted this on the GTR forum, but be good to get your input too!
I am in the market for a new car after owning the usual suspect Jap metal for over ten years (Evos, Scoobs, VR4s etc).
As my car and driving experience has grown, so have my car needs and expectations. Initially I enjoyed a car that was a fast and capable as possible (for the money), and loved the AWD unshakable abilities of the Evo/Scoob etc. Once I got used to them, I started modding to get my thrills and the quest began for more power, even more unshakable grip and better handling. As I have matured, I've begun to appreciate the little delicacies of driving, and am starting to appreciate lighter weight, agility, feel, and noise as much as outright power, so those cars have become less fulfilling in my quest for driving Nirvanna.
I always assumed that the GTR would be my next step, but after driving one for 30 mins I'm not sure. This is where I need your help. After my initial, albeit short drive, I came away incredibly impressed with the car's abilities, power and poise, as the car felt literally effortless and invincible, but in that time the car didn't get under my skin like I'd hoped. I will use the car predominantly as a road car, so would unlikely be able to properly test its limits on the road, and I'm wondering if therein lies the problem is the GTR too good?
I'm an ok driver, but recognise that I'm no pro, and so for my abilities I felt almost that driving the GTR fast was too effortless and easy, too unchallenging? I have no doubt that the car is thrilling to drive, but I am worried that the thrill comes from the sheer speed that the car is able to achieve as opposed to the more intricate elements that define a great driver's car. What I want to know is if you think I will get bored of the car, and end up going back down the endless road of tuning to get my thrills, or if the GTR has the inherent qualities beyond sheer speed that will make every drive a pleasure?
As an alternative I am also considering a 997.2 GT3, which I have also driven. Immediately after the GTR the car feels slower, but during the short test drive, it did seem to deliver more of a visceral, tactile driving experience which the GTR lacked initially. The manual shift, the lack of mass, the high revving engine, low seating position and much smaller, chuckable feel of the car all served to be very rewarding, and all the write-ups say that it's something that you'll never tire of. It also felt more of a challenge to drive fast, and a little intimidating with the threat of that rear end waiting to bite - but that in itself was rewarding. Also, the GT3 felt more fun, more of the time even when driving within the speed limit and at lower speeds, which was nice. Is the GTR only fun when you're breaking the law? At the same time, after the GTR, once I got used to a GT3, would the GT3 end up feeling too slow and gutless?
I honestly don't know what to go for. If I buy the GTR, I am worried that it will suck me dry as I have an inherent tendency to tinker. There are so many tuning options available for the car for both performance and cosmetics will I be constantly enhancing' the car?
Have any owners come from a GT3 to GTR or vice versa? Which will be the better long-term ownership proposition to keep me engaged and entertained for many years?
Any thoughts, experience or opinions would be gratefully received.
Cheers,
Mart.
PS - Will still be keeping the Plus as the family wagon!
Posted this on the GTR forum, but be good to get your input too!
I am in the market for a new car after owning the usual suspect Jap metal for over ten years (Evos, Scoobs, VR4s etc).
As my car and driving experience has grown, so have my car needs and expectations. Initially I enjoyed a car that was a fast and capable as possible (for the money), and loved the AWD unshakable abilities of the Evo/Scoob etc. Once I got used to them, I started modding to get my thrills and the quest began for more power, even more unshakable grip and better handling. As I have matured, I've begun to appreciate the little delicacies of driving, and am starting to appreciate lighter weight, agility, feel, and noise as much as outright power, so those cars have become less fulfilling in my quest for driving Nirvanna.
I always assumed that the GTR would be my next step, but after driving one for 30 mins I'm not sure. This is where I need your help. After my initial, albeit short drive, I came away incredibly impressed with the car's abilities, power and poise, as the car felt literally effortless and invincible, but in that time the car didn't get under my skin like I'd hoped. I will use the car predominantly as a road car, so would unlikely be able to properly test its limits on the road, and I'm wondering if therein lies the problem is the GTR too good?
I'm an ok driver, but recognise that I'm no pro, and so for my abilities I felt almost that driving the GTR fast was too effortless and easy, too unchallenging? I have no doubt that the car is thrilling to drive, but I am worried that the thrill comes from the sheer speed that the car is able to achieve as opposed to the more intricate elements that define a great driver's car. What I want to know is if you think I will get bored of the car, and end up going back down the endless road of tuning to get my thrills, or if the GTR has the inherent qualities beyond sheer speed that will make every drive a pleasure?
As an alternative I am also considering a 997.2 GT3, which I have also driven. Immediately after the GTR the car feels slower, but during the short test drive, it did seem to deliver more of a visceral, tactile driving experience which the GTR lacked initially. The manual shift, the lack of mass, the high revving engine, low seating position and much smaller, chuckable feel of the car all served to be very rewarding, and all the write-ups say that it's something that you'll never tire of. It also felt more of a challenge to drive fast, and a little intimidating with the threat of that rear end waiting to bite - but that in itself was rewarding. Also, the GT3 felt more fun, more of the time even when driving within the speed limit and at lower speeds, which was nice. Is the GTR only fun when you're breaking the law? At the same time, after the GTR, once I got used to a GT3, would the GT3 end up feeling too slow and gutless?
I honestly don't know what to go for. If I buy the GTR, I am worried that it will suck me dry as I have an inherent tendency to tinker. There are so many tuning options available for the car for both performance and cosmetics will I be constantly enhancing' the car?
Have any owners come from a GT3 to GTR or vice versa? Which will be the better long-term ownership proposition to keep me engaged and entertained for many years?
Any thoughts, experience or opinions would be gratefully received.
Cheers,
Mart.
PS - Will still be keeping the Plus as the family wagon!
C6 RS6 Plus with a few sensible mods...
Re: Considering a GTR, but is it too good?
Is there such a thing as "too good"?
No matter where you go, there you are.
Re: Considering a GTR, but is it too good?
Yeah I think there is. If a car robs you of all the tactile reward and pleasure that you expect from a driver's car (feel, mechanical interaction, noise, agility) and just goes very fast, in an annodyne way then it could be too good, too capable. If a car is easy to drive fast, then once you get over the sensation of speed then it could just get boring no?
Not sure...
Not sure...
C6 RS6 Plus with a few sensible mods...
Re: Considering a GTR, but is it too good?
^ Ergo; "car that robs you of all the tactile reward and pleasure that you expect from a driver's car" = not a driver's car... ergo (thice) = not a too good car.
Yes, my logic even causes me dizzy spells.
Yes, my logic even causes me dizzy spells.
No matter where you go, there you are.
Re: Considering a GTR, but is it too good?
Sounds like you have already made your mind up and want some sort of confirmation. If the GT3 feels better than surely that's the one for you.
2014: 8V S3, Scirocco (mistake)
2013: B8 RS 5, 3.0T S5 coupe, B8 S5 cab - temp, B8 S4 avant
2011: 2.0T FL Octavia VRS
2010: 1.8T Octavia VRS
2013: B8 RS 5, 3.0T S5 coupe, B8 S5 cab - temp, B8 S4 avant
2011: 2.0T FL Octavia VRS
2010: 1.8T Octavia VRS
Re: Considering a GTR, but is it too good?
Read page 4 onwards on this link. Look for posts by boss fox as he owns a GTR. Very good honest opinions of his tuned GTR.
http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/23 ... ge__st__90
http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/23 ... ge__st__90
2014: 8V S3, Scirocco (mistake)
2013: B8 RS 5, 3.0T S5 coupe, B8 S5 cab - temp, B8 S4 avant
2011: 2.0T FL Octavia VRS
2010: 1.8T Octavia VRS
2013: B8 RS 5, 3.0T S5 coupe, B8 S5 cab - temp, B8 S4 avant
2011: 2.0T FL Octavia VRS
2010: 1.8T Octavia VRS
Re: Considering a GTR, but is it too good?
I'd have to agree - you can have a car thats "too good" on the road.
My pet favourite road cars are elises.
Unless you have a serious power transplant they are not "fast" on track, and stock most are no quicker (if at all) than a current hot hatch.
But on the road there's nothing quite like them to have fun in at sensible speeds. Under 80mph is their sweet spot and it's actully really impressive how much fun you can have without hitting serious license losing speeds.
This is where cars like the GTR are too good for the road. The speeds you have to go to unsettle one is way above what would be reasonable and safe in almost all road circumstances. The other problem with them is that you can not change physics and what you end up with on cars this capable and controlled is easily being able to get incredibly close to the limit. But overstep the mark and it'll still wrap itself round a tree just like any other car.
The same is true of the 211 - even though it's an elise at heart it's simply too good for the road and can charge down country lanes way faster than posted limits without troubling it. But it doesn't make it "fun" - I actually prefer using wifes mini cooper S as although slower and less capable, it's more "fun" and thats what I'm looking for on the road not outright performance.
Similar argument with DSG transmissions... sure they may be technically superior in every statistic but I have way more fun and enjoyment balancing a car on all three pedals whilst down shifting. Who cares if I'm 0.1 seconds slower round the nurburgring because of it?
But everybody is different - some people get a kick out of a super modded godzilla. It's not my cup of tea but doesn't mean I don't wish them well. If we all wanted the same thing it'd be dull.
My pet favourite road cars are elises.
Unless you have a serious power transplant they are not "fast" on track, and stock most are no quicker (if at all) than a current hot hatch.
But on the road there's nothing quite like them to have fun in at sensible speeds. Under 80mph is their sweet spot and it's actully really impressive how much fun you can have without hitting serious license losing speeds.
This is where cars like the GTR are too good for the road. The speeds you have to go to unsettle one is way above what would be reasonable and safe in almost all road circumstances. The other problem with them is that you can not change physics and what you end up with on cars this capable and controlled is easily being able to get incredibly close to the limit. But overstep the mark and it'll still wrap itself round a tree just like any other car.
The same is true of the 211 - even though it's an elise at heart it's simply too good for the road and can charge down country lanes way faster than posted limits without troubling it. But it doesn't make it "fun" - I actually prefer using wifes mini cooper S as although slower and less capable, it's more "fun" and thats what I'm looking for on the road not outright performance.
Similar argument with DSG transmissions... sure they may be technically superior in every statistic but I have way more fun and enjoyment balancing a car on all three pedals whilst down shifting. Who cares if I'm 0.1 seconds slower round the nurburgring because of it?
But everybody is different - some people get a kick out of a super modded godzilla. It's not my cup of tea but doesn't mean I don't wish them well. If we all wanted the same thing it'd be dull.
- John Johnson
- 5th Gear
- Posts: 1101
- Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:27 pm
- Location: Uk
Re: Considering a GTR, but is it too good?
The gtr takes the driving experience and totally detaches you from it , amanda knows steve and he is an instructor in these , fast fiats and the porsche and whilst its clinically rapid and accomplished in the extremes you dont get the feeling and feedback compared to the others , but my god its fast .... Porker wins
Current toys in the garage
B7 avant in Daytona with ceramics and a few other goodies and lowwwww miles
Ur quattro. lago Blue
Ur quattro. Mars red
Rs1600i
Transit custom sportvan
http://youtu.be/FWBUl7oT9sA
B7 avant in Daytona with ceramics and a few other goodies and lowwwww miles
Ur quattro. lago Blue
Ur quattro. Mars red
Rs1600i
Transit custom sportvan
http://youtu.be/FWBUl7oT9sA
Re: Considering a GTR, but is it too good?
Yeah, maybe you're right. I think I am testing the observations that I made after having driven the GTR myself. I feel almost a little deflated and let down as I'd always wanted one. In some ways it feels difficult to justify paying more money for a slower and inherently flawed car (GT3), when the GTR is clearly more competent. I'm just beginning to question if the GTR has enough depth of character to keep me entertained for more than a few months before I get bored. I'm hoping that the GT3 conversely will actually get better and more enjoyable the more I get to know it, and get used to its flawed dynamics.
Good comments guys, keep 'em coming!
Mart.
Good comments guys, keep 'em coming!
Mart.
C6 RS6 Plus with a few sensible mods...
Re: Considering a GTR, but is it too good?
Did you read boss fox's 4 or 5 posts on it. It sounds to me you and he are saying that it isn't the car for you.
2014: 8V S3, Scirocco (mistake)
2013: B8 RS 5, 3.0T S5 coupe, B8 S5 cab - temp, B8 S4 avant
2011: 2.0T FL Octavia VRS
2010: 1.8T Octavia VRS
2013: B8 RS 5, 3.0T S5 coupe, B8 S5 cab - temp, B8 S4 avant
2011: 2.0T FL Octavia VRS
2010: 1.8T Octavia VRS
Re: Considering a GTR, but is it too good?
Yea, thanks for posting that, I did read his comments, and you're right, they do mirror my own concerns.
Still, can't help lusting after the car though! I know it's probably not right for me but for the money it's hard to argue.
I'm trying to look at things rationally, but perhaps that's the problem!
Mart.
Still, can't help lusting after the car though! I know it's probably not right for me but for the money it's hard to argue.
I'm trying to look at things rationally, but perhaps that's the problem!
Mart.
C6 RS6 Plus with a few sensible mods...
Re: Considering a GTR, but is it too good?
My experience with a GT3 is that the limiting factor (for everybody who is not a driving god) is the driver.
It takes a long time to get to know the car and see beyond the initial "safe limits".
It takes a long time to get to know the car and see beyond the initial "safe limits".
Re: Considering a GTR, but is it too good?
Is that a good or a bad thing?
C6 RS6 Plus with a few sensible mods...
Re: Considering a GTR, but is it too good?
To me it's good - when the car is soo much better than you, then you never stop improving and finding that little extra.
Re: Considering a GTR, but is it too good?
Good, that's what I think too, and what will hopefully keep me in the car for a long time. It's nice to build a 'relationship' with a car over many years, rather than chg every five minutes.
C6 RS6 Plus with a few sensible mods...
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 42 guests