RS4 vs GT-R facts (US)

Nissan (Skyline) GT-R
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ArthurPE
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RS4 vs GT-R facts (US)

Post by ArthurPE » Fri Jul 16, 2010 10:37 pm

since we are seeing the GT-R vs RS4 discussions lately, and they seem to speed centric, here's another perspective...no rabble rousing intended...

a metric I use for desireability/value of a car is resale...
Autotrader is a good comparison

GT-R (~3700 US cars so far as of June 2010)
used:
109
avg $72,000
mileage >80% <5000

new:
327
avg $85,000

been on the market for 1 year...
tells me:
a lot of folks who buy the car, sell it quickly, with a huge hit...
depreciation 1 year ~15%
cost of ownership contributing to fast sales? economy? disastisfaction?

RS4: (~2500-3000? cars)
used
87 (not many cars in a country of 300 mil!)
avg $50,000
avg 30 to 40k miles (maybe 1/3 >40k, many at 50k)

no new ones, been off the market for 2 years or so...
original price ~70k
depreciation 2+ years ~28%
~15% per year, probably pretty much standard, guessing it will taper off soon, due to low production volumes and niche status...

an interesting insight:
RS4 only ~3.5% of all the cars (using the 2500) are on the market after 2+ years after last sold...

GT-R
used ~3% (only on the market for 1 year)
new ~9%
total ~12% of all cars are on the market

so even though the RS4 is older, and of higher mileage, the owners seem to be holding on to them longer...

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rs4v8
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RE: RS4 vs GT-R facts (US)

Post by rs4v8 » Sat Jul 17, 2010 4:24 am

Yeah. Good point ArthurPE.

A quick look at the costs involved in GT-R ownership might explain why. Servicing in particular, six months OR 6k which ever is first!. The RS4 was / is amazing in this respect. 18k between scheduled services?! Still not sure how they manage that!

For me it was time to change to something new having had mine from new over three and a bit years. The GT-R was pretty much the only thing that fits my requirements or which is a direct replacement. M3 / M5 / AMG maybe but not 4wd? RS6 too big, not taken with the RS5, doesn't leave much really does it?

It'll have to be really good to be better than the RS4.

My new car is three months old and has 3.3k on the clock. Some guy has taken an approx 5k GBP hit for this. Three and a bit years of RS4 ownership and 23k miles has seen a depreciation of 20k on my RS4 :-(

Cars. Bottomless pit for money.............
Current
'10 Nissan GT-R Black Edition, Kuro Black.
'59 Scirocco 2.0 TFSI
'09 RSV4 Factory
'08 Aprilia SXV 550
Car park in the sky
'07 RS4, Phantom black saloon
'57 Clio 197
'04 Aprilia RSVR Factory. Black.
E46 M3 SMG, Alpine white
E46 320i coupe
E36 328is coupe
VW golf VR6

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Re: RE: RS4 vs GT-R facts (US)

Post by Sims » Sat Jul 17, 2010 11:36 am

rs4v8 wrote:
A quick look at the costs involved in GT-R ownership might explain why. Servicing in particular, six months OR 6k which ever is first!. The RS4 was / is amazing in this respect. 18k between scheduled services?! Still not sure how they manage that!

..........
Agree about the cost of ownership & it's impact.

Also all hard-core cars will have frequent ownership changes. Take Porsche 996/997 GT3 (but not the C2S) or the M3 CSL (but not the normal M3).

The RS4 is an everyday car. The GTR is more than that. These stats really don't mean much.

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RE: Re: RE: RS4 vs GT-R facts (US)

Post by rs4v8 » Sat Jul 17, 2010 12:11 pm

An RS4 is a wee bit more than an everyday car sims! A car than can be used everyday perhaps! It's no Astra diesel :biggrin2:

Just for clarification of my point about servicing the GTR giving people a fright in the first year of ownership. Nissan UK official figures mind vs Litchfields who are able to do all the same work but cheaper. Services every 6 months or 6k whichever first!!

Does 7699GBP basic servicing in 5 years grab your attention??!!!!

Audi servicing doesn't look so bad now does it? :shock: :shock:

You're not buying an RS4 or a GTR to be watching the pennies. Depreciation / servicing / running costs are a consideration yes, but not the major factor. If they were we'd be polo bluemotion drivers the lot of us.
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Current
'10 Nissan GT-R Black Edition, Kuro Black.
'59 Scirocco 2.0 TFSI
'09 RSV4 Factory
'08 Aprilia SXV 550
Car park in the sky
'07 RS4, Phantom black saloon
'57 Clio 197
'04 Aprilia RSVR Factory. Black.
E46 M3 SMG, Alpine white
E46 320i coupe
E36 328is coupe
VW golf VR6

Screw you guys!' - Eric Cartman

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Sims
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Re: RE: Re: RE: RS4 vs GT-R facts (US)

Post by Sims » Sat Jul 17, 2010 12:36 pm

rs4v8 wrote:An RS4 is a wee bit more than an everyday car sims! A car than can be used everyday perhaps! It's no Astra diesel :biggrin2:

.
Of course it's a special car, but the attractiveness of it (for me) is that it's a car you will use everyday like other people will use Astra's because you can. You will be travelling business class, and not economy.

Few will be garage queens, I suspect.

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Re: RE: Re: RE: RS4 vs GT-R facts (US)

Post by Sims » Sat Jul 17, 2010 12:38 pm

Sims wrote:
rs4v8 wrote:An RS4 is a wee bit more than an everyday car sims! A car than can be used everyday perhaps! It's no Astra diesel :biggrin2:

.
Of course it's a special car, but the attractiveness of it (for me) is that it's a car you will use everyday like other people will use Astra's because you can. You will be travelling business class, and not economy.

Few will be garage queens, I suspect.

BTW, I have an Astra Sxi (1.2Twinport) :lol:

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Re: RE: Re: RE: RS4 vs GT-R facts (US)

Post by rs4v8 » Sat Jul 17, 2010 12:39 pm

Sims wrote:
rs4v8 wrote:An RS4 is a wee bit more than an everyday car sims! A car than can be used everyday perhaps! It's no Astra diesel :biggrin2:

.
Of course it's a special car, but the attractiveness of it (for me) is that it's a car you will use everyday like other people will use Astra's because you can. You will be travelling business class, and not economy.

Few will be garage queens, I suspect.
Yeah totally. That is the beauty of it.
Current
'10 Nissan GT-R Black Edition, Kuro Black.
'59 Scirocco 2.0 TFSI
'09 RSV4 Factory
'08 Aprilia SXV 550
Car park in the sky
'07 RS4, Phantom black saloon
'57 Clio 197
'04 Aprilia RSVR Factory. Black.
E46 M3 SMG, Alpine white
E46 320i coupe
E36 328is coupe
VW golf VR6

Screw you guys!' - Eric Cartman

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rs4v8
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Re: RE: Re: RE: RS4 vs GT-R facts (US)

Post by rs4v8 » Sat Jul 17, 2010 12:41 pm

Sims wrote:BTW, I have an Astra Sxi (1.2Twinport) :lol:
Nice! Quick is she? :-)
Current
'10 Nissan GT-R Black Edition, Kuro Black.
'59 Scirocco 2.0 TFSI
'09 RSV4 Factory
'08 Aprilia SXV 550
Car park in the sky
'07 RS4, Phantom black saloon
'57 Clio 197
'04 Aprilia RSVR Factory. Black.
E46 M3 SMG, Alpine white
E46 320i coupe
E36 328is coupe
VW golf VR6

Screw you guys!' - Eric Cartman

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Sims
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Re: RE: Re: RE: RS4 vs GT-R facts (US)

Post by Sims » Sat Jul 17, 2010 12:56 pm

rs4v8 wrote:
Sims wrote:BTW, I have an Astra Sxi (1.2Twinport) :lol:
Nice! Quick is she? :-)
Quick enough to lose your licence, but not nearly as safe whilst you are doing it. :roll:

Cheap as chips, but horses for courses. It's a Corsa actually but same sort of idea.

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ArthurPE
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Re: RE: RS4 vs GT-R facts (US)

Post by ArthurPE » Sat Jul 17, 2010 4:36 pm

$9k for a brake job at 20k miles or less...
makes the expensive RS4 job sound like a bargin...4k or so?

all cars take the big hit, seems like a racket, lol

I tend to be frugal (not that others aren't) but I use cost/month as my decison point...once I get the cost of ownership (excluding commons like fuel, insurance, etc., yep, they vary, but you pay for thos with any car) down to $200 / month, then I get a new car...takes about 4 years (with my corp. car allowance)...
$200/month seems like a fair 'lease' for an M3 or RS4 :D
besides, gives me time to figure out what I want next, and if I can't make an informed decision after 5 years and internet research, well, you know...lol

the leading candidate is a 997 Turbo, followed by a 997 GT3 (early)
if I get the Turbo, sell the RS4
if I get the GT3, not really a daily driver...

rs4v8 wrote:Yeah. Good point ArthurPE.

A quick look at the costs involved in GT-R ownership might explain why. Servicing in particular, six months OR 6k which ever is first!. The RS4 was / is amazing in this respect. 18k between scheduled services?! Still not sure how they manage that!

For me it was time to change to something new having had mine from new over three and a bit years. The GT-R was pretty much the only thing that fits my requirements or which is a direct replacement. M3 / M5 / AMG maybe but not 4wd? RS6 too big, not taken with the RS5, doesn't leave much really does it?

It'll have to be really good to be better than the RS4.

My new car is three months old and has 3.3k on the clock. Some guy has taken an approx 5k GBP hit for this. Three and a bit years of RS4 ownership and 23k miles has seen a depreciation of 20k on my RS4 :-(

Cars. Bottomless pit for money.............

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rs4v8
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Re: RE: RS4 vs GT-R facts (US)

Post by rs4v8 » Sun Jul 18, 2010 3:58 am

ArthurPE wrote:$9k for a brake job at 20k miles or less...
makes the expensive RS4 job sound like a bargin...4k or so?

all cars take the big hit, seems like a racket, lol

I tend to be frugal (not that others aren't) but I use cost/month as my decison point...once I get the cost of ownership (excluding commons like fuel, insurance, etc., yep, they vary, but you pay for thos with any car) down to $200 / month, then I get a new car...takes about 4 years (with my corp. car allowance)...
$200/month seems like a fair 'lease' for an M3 or RS4 :D
besides, gives me time to figure out what I want next, and if I can't make an informed decision after 5 years and internet research, well, you know...lol

the leading candidate is a 997 Turbo, followed by a 997 GT3 (early)
if I get the Turbo, sell the RS4
if I get the GT3, not really a daily driver...
Nothing wrong with being frugal Arthur. 997 Turbo / gt3 frugal? :-)

Yeah approx 4kGBP for brakes but they'll last longer if you're not a kamikaze. Plus, by the time they do expire the warranty will be dead and aftermarket parts are a) cheaper and b) arguably better, and I can fit them myself so not a major concern for me.
Current
'10 Nissan GT-R Black Edition, Kuro Black.
'59 Scirocco 2.0 TFSI
'09 RSV4 Factory
'08 Aprilia SXV 550
Car park in the sky
'07 RS4, Phantom black saloon
'57 Clio 197
'04 Aprilia RSVR Factory. Black.
E46 M3 SMG, Alpine white
E46 320i coupe
E36 328is coupe
VW golf VR6

Screw you guys!' - Eric Cartman

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ArthurPE
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RE: Re: RE: RS4 vs GT-R facts (US)

Post by ArthurPE » Sun Jul 18, 2010 4:19 pm

my wife is an accountant...so roi is important, lol

997TT
relatively...
the depreciation curve is flatening
a good deal can be had in this economy...
might have to 'settle' for a bit longer, maybe 5 years or so rather than 4
I try to keep hem longer and have even approached a break-even point on some cars...

I've never been a guy who had to have the 'best', fastest, coolest, etc.
I've always appreciated what I've had
but was lucky enough to own a Porsche 1980 931 in 1982...I was only 25
back then that was rare, young guys couldn't afford the good shyte, lol
only had 7k miles on it, custom ordered by the dealership owner himself
5 lug suspension, crank windows, forged 16" wheels, coffee black, brown leather/tweed...


side note:
bought a notebook comp yesterday $200 at Target
loading all my music onto it, will serve as a server feeding my Cambridge Audi dacmagic d/a convertor
right now loading Art Farmer Maiden Voyage
just finished VU the best of, Beatles Rubber Soul & Revolver
up next Mingus Tijuana Blues

~ 4 minutes per album
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe...Albert Einstein

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Re: RE: Re: RE: RS4 vs GT-R facts (US)

Post by rs4v8 » Sun Jul 18, 2010 4:59 pm

ArthurPE wrote:side note:
bought a notebook comp yesterday $200 at Target
loading all my music onto it, will serve as a server feeding my Cambridge Audi dacmagic d/a convertor
right now loading Art Farmer Maiden Voyage
just finished VU the best of, Beatles Rubber Soul & Revolver
up next Mingus Tijuana Blues

~ 4 minutes per album
$200 dollars? really? Thats amazing Arthur. Frugal indeed.
Current
'10 Nissan GT-R Black Edition, Kuro Black.
'59 Scirocco 2.0 TFSI
'09 RSV4 Factory
'08 Aprilia SXV 550
Car park in the sky
'07 RS4, Phantom black saloon
'57 Clio 197
'04 Aprilia RSVR Factory. Black.
E46 M3 SMG, Alpine white
E46 320i coupe
E36 328is coupe
VW golf VR6

Screw you guys!' - Eric Cartman

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ArthurPE
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Re: RE: Re: RE: RS4 vs GT-R facts (US)

Post by ArthurPE » Sun Jul 18, 2010 6:00 pm

rs4v8 wrote: $200 dollars? really? Thats amazing Arthur. Frugal indeed.
Acer
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160 GB HD
loaded with Windows 7
WiFi

cheaper than an Ipod

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