Anyone ever considered emigrating?

[Peakz]

rotflmao @ quattronutter

[CliveH]

Those dinosaurs must have been practicing some pretty serious witchcraft...

[Turbo Joe]

so what about the dinosaurs?where did they come from?were they planted by aliens

Dinosaurs were created by God(Genesis 1) on day 6 of the creation about 6000 years ago. Most of them got destroyed in the flood, there may even be some still around. Cryptozoology deals with this kind of thing. Noah took dinosaurs on the arch, it would make sense to take babies as they would fit, be more durable and last longer after they exited the arch after the flood was over. The propaganda about dinosaurs living millions of years ago is absolutely false. The evolution theory has so many holes in it, I wouldn't know when to start mate.

[Turbo Joe]

New Orleans was rife with witchcraft before their flood and they got it big time. Like I said before, God will not be mocked.

Seems like another good example of your charming god! If this is so, please explain what all the other poor people living in New Orleans did to deserve to be wiped out 'big time'...

As said above, this is an interesting, healthy debate. I'm only sorry I don't have the time to make a proper contribution.

Like I said before, man has brains. For starters who told them to build a city on ground that is below sea level? Seems a bit foolish to me. What poor people sir? Those who kept their mouths shut and never voiced oppostion to what was going on? Remember, silence is agreeance. Plus I'm sure that those who did warn them(yes they were warned of what was to come if they didn't turn from what they were doing many times over but they failed to listen)God protected. Having been given prior warnings, those who stayed, their reproach is upon their own heads.

[CliveH]

What, pray, were these warnings??

[S4TAN]

Sorry to go on and on but I feel that I had to answer the questions you set forth and set the record straight from a biblical christian standpoint.

No apology necessary - loved your response, very well written, and very revealing of your Christianity! You are clearly a man of deep faith Blower - in the face of such overwhelming scientific evidence for the Darwinian evolution of man (as opposed to the Adam & Eve story) you adhere to your Old Testament beliefs, and the concept of Heaven and Hell as real places - that really does require an astonishing level of (blind) faith! I say blind because you have not one jot of historical evidence that any of Genesis is true. Nor that the Jesus of your New Testament even existed for that matter. Most of the gospels were written hundreds of years after Jesus supposedly lived.


Can I assume also that you believe the Earth to be somewhere between 6,600 and 10,000 years old ... rather than the current scientific estimate of ~4.5billion years?


I must say that your God does seem to be somewhat of a vengeful and spiteful being from what you've written above - and I have to wonder what type of God would create sentient beings (humans) only to punish them and leave them to suffer persecution, disease, famine, genocide etc ... as you say: God exists outside of time and space - if this is the case then God knows the sum of all histories and the sum of all futures - i.e. God sees all of time at once and doesn't pass through time in a linear uni-directional manner - why then did God not create us perfect from the get-go? If you answer that God did with Adam & Eve then logically this can't be true - a perfect being wouldn't succumb to temptation (naughty old Satan) - therefore they were not perfect. Why then create an imperfect race? For Gods amusement maybe? Creating an imperfect race simply to toy with, observe its suffering, and punish severely when it makes mistakes smacks to me of a God we could do well without! It is also implicit of a limited God, a very human God - some of your explanations above certainly point to this being the case (very reminiscent of the way a cruel father treats a child)

As for the flood legends - yes; there has been many floods throughout Earths history, and no doubt some accounts from the thawing at the end of last Ice-Age (12,000-10,000 years ago) have survived as folklore.

Virgin birth? No - I think not; if you research beyond your self-constraining limits of the Bible you'll find all the evidence you need of the mistranslation/misinterpretation of 'young woman' to 'unmarried' to 'virgin'.

I think the mistake you make is to believe in the Bible so literally - it seems you actually believe it verbatim - as I said before; that takes an astonishing level of faith - but it can never go beyond being exactly that: faith! Faith in story with precisely zero evidence.

All good stuff! No doubt everyone else is bored shitless with this though

Pray for my soul please Blower!

[S4TAN]

Dinosaurs were created by God(Genesis 1) on day 6 of the creation about 6000 years ago. Most of them got destroyed in the flood, there may even be some still around.

Awesome! Where are they?? I <beep> love Dinosaurs me!

The propaganda about dinosaurs living millions of years ago is absolutely false.

That one has left me speechless ...

[CliveH]

All good stuff! No doubt everyone else is bored shitless with this though

Far from it - very entertaining

[shineydave]

Well i've just had another 3 weeks over in NZ with a view to emigrating there in the next 18 months or so but damn it, i think i'll stop here and watch you guys instead, lol.

Talking of the Illuminati there's an interesting article about population control in this months uncensored describing some methods they've employed to restrict and reduce the world population. how about promoting Bio fuels to reduce the amount of farmland utilised for food crops, just what you want in a world that has already got a food shortage.

if you think S4TAN is paranoid you want to see what these guys have to say (http://uncensored.co.nz/)

[Turbo Joe]

Its all good mate. Gotten correct you though on a few more false analogies that you've brought up. Ther is no evidence for evolution, none. All evidences brought forward over time have been disproven, all. Perhaps you care to state the best evidence that you know of.

Evidence for the flood that occured in Genesis is here in the form of fossils and layers of stratified rocks. I would like to hear how fossils would form from and evolutionary standpoint........and by the way if evolution is true, how do we determine right from wrong?

As for extra biblical references to Christ, I suggest you pick up a book called The Archko Volume. Josephus, a first century jewish historian also attests to Christ living. Even the enemies of christianity at the time wrote about Christ and his spreading faith. The evidence is there mate, you just don't want to see it.

As for the age of the earth, all radiometric dating methods have huge systematic errors and even your own evolution boys will admit this. Pick your dating material be it carbon, potassium argon, Lead 205, Lead 208, Uranium, they all rely heavily on some serious assumptions. Carbon 14 dating proves the earth is less than 30000 years old but your boys won't tell you that because they are too embarassed.

God is not a vengful, full of anger and ready to zap folks at any given moment. People bring these things upon themselves when they disregard God's law. If you had a child, how long would you sit there and allow the him/her to be disobedient before taking action? God is very patient, your lifetime is an example of this and a testimony against you and for God in showing how merciful he is. Despite support a guy who hates you to the fullest, God is still patient with you and hasn't zapped you yet.

Wrong again, God created a perfect world and man wrecked it. Lucifer's problem was that he started usurping the praises of God to himself. This is not a smack in the face to perfection. Just because Satan rose up in pride and rebelled, that doesn't mean he wasn't made perfect(Ezekiel 28 deals abit with Lucifer's beginning). You have freewill. God doesn't want robots, he wants folks to choose to serve him which is another reason why he doesn't fully reveal himself to people, if he did then folks would only worship and serve him out of fear not love out of their own choice.

Many floods in history yes but only 1 worldwide flood which destroyed the entire planet. These legends are referring to the worldwide flood that wiped out humanity, not the minor local floods we have had since then.

As for the virgin birth, there are extra biblical references to refer to such as the first book I mentioned which confirm the purity of the birth of Christ.

I take the bible literally not just by itself as God's word but also because science confirms it in every aspect. Some things mentioned in the bible were known long before they were discovered by man. For example Job 38 mentions "springs in the sea". Written down over 4000 years ago and only recently confirmed by man in the late 1970's. Even if we take a bible printed in 1900, its still prior knowledge being demonstrated from a super natural source.

All good clean fun, however I still await 3 contradictions in the bible and your best evidence for evolution that hasn't been proven false.

[Turbo Joe]

What, pray, were these warnings??

Pray, stop doing your wickedness, turn from your evil practices. Witchcraft and Satanism involves the blood sacrifices of children. If you had children and they were sacrificed upon a satanic altar, wouldn't you want retrebution? And you wonder why so many children go missing each year, do the math.

[Turbo Joe]

By the way, they were specifically told that judgement was coming in the form of a flood. They had plenty of warning via pastors and prophets.

[S4TAN]

Ther is no evidence for evolution, none.

Fossil evidence - intermediary forms - vestigal DNA/vestigal tails ... read here for one of many many examples: http://www.gate.net/~rwms/EvoEvidence.html

I would like to hear how fossils would form from and evolutionary standpoint.

In vertebrates, the hard parts such as bones and teeth are composed mainly of calcium phosphate, Ca5(PO4)3, with combined fluorine, chlorine or hydroxyl. This composition is related to, or identical with, that of the mineral apatite and all such phosphates are relatively insoluble. Most invertebrates (e.g. molluscs, echinoderms, crustaceans and coral) construct their shells out of calcium carbonate, although many arthropods such as smaller crustaceans, insects and arachnids construct their hard parts of chitin.

Fossil bones, and especially the enamel of teeth, are likely to be stained by chemicals in the sediment which buries them; many bones are black or dark brown when discovered. Apart from staining, the minerals of bones are not altered, although calcite (CaCO3) or silica (SiO2) may be deposited in cavities that were empty in the living animal or were occupied by soft tissue. Bone protein may be replaced by minerals which strengthen the fossil.

Fossilisation takes millions of years and is a process fraught with chance. When something dies it immediately starts to rot and unless it is rapidly buried it will decompose before it is fossilised. As mentioned the hard tissues last longer, but these are often destroyed or scattered by animals or the elements. Even if a fossil is formed it may later dissolve, be chemically altered or be destroyed by high temperature or pressure. Only a very small percentage of all living things are fossilised.

and by the way if evolution is true, how do we determine right from wrong

Mutually beneficial altruism for purposes of survival - see The Selfish Gene.

As for the age of the earth, all radiometric dating methods with huge systematic errors and even your own evolution boys will admit this. Pick your dating material be it carbon, potassium argon, Lead 205, Lead 208, Uranium, they all rely heavily on some serious assumptions. Carbon 14 dating proves the earth is less than 30000 years old but your boys won't tell you that because they are too embarassed.

You've clearly suffered from total brainwashing Blower - here's an excerpt from an article you shoud read: "Radiometric dating--the process of determining the age of rocks from the decay of their radioactive elements--has been in widespread use for over half a century. There are over forty such techniques, each using a different radioactive element or a different way of measuring them. It has become increasingly clear that these radiometric dating techniques agree with each other and as a whole, present a coherent picture in which the Earth was created a very long time ago. Further evidence comes from the complete agreement between radiometric dates and other dating methods such as counting tree rings or glacier ice core layers. Many Christians have been led to distrust radiometric dating and are completely unaware of the great number of laboratory measurements that have shown these methods to be consistent. Many are also unaware that Bible-believing Christians are among those actively involved in radiometric dating... "
Here's the link to the rest of the article: http://www.asa3.org/aSA/resources/Wiens.html

If you had a child, how long would you sit there and allow the him/her to be disobedient before taking action

A fair point ........ except that I wouldn't kill a disobedient child, nor would I sit back and watch them suffer physical injury and abject agony.

I take the bible literally not just by itself as God's word but also because science confirms it in every aspect.

How? In what way? Examples please?

As for the virgin birth, there are extra biblical references to refer to such as the first book I mentioned which confirm the purity of the birth of Christ.

Names of these "extra biblical references" please?

All good clean fun, however I still await 3 contradictions in the bible and your best evidence for evolution that hasn't been proven false.

3 contradictions:

(1) Genesis 1 and 2 disagree about the order in which things are created, and how satisfied God is about the results of his labors
(2) The flood story is really two interwoven stories that contradict each other on how many of each kind of animal are to be brought into the Ark--is it one pair each or seven pairs each of the "clean" ones?
(3) The Gospel of John disagrees with the other three Gospels on the activities of Jesus Christ (how long had he stayed in Jerusalem--a couple of days or a whole year?) and all four Gospels contradict each other on the details of Jesus Christ's last moments and resurrection.

Would you like some more? ... ok ... here you go:

God good to all, or just a few?
PSA 145:9 The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works.

JER 13:14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.


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War or Peace?
EXO 15:3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.

ROM 15:33 Now the God of peace be with you all. Amen.


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Who is the father of Joseph?
MAT 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

LUK 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli.


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Who was at the Empty Tomb? Is it:
MAT 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

MAR 16:1 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.

JOH 20:1 The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.


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Is Jesus equal to or lesser than?
JOH 10:30 I and my Father are one.

JOH 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.


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Which first--beasts or man?
GEN 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
GEN 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

GEN 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
GEN 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.


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The number of beasts in the ark
GEN 7:2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.

GEN 7:8 Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth, GEN 7:9 There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.


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How many stalls and horsemen?
KI1 4:26 And Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen.

CH2 9:25 And Solomon had four thousand stalls for horses and chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen; whom he bestowed in the chariot cities, and with the king at Jerusalem.


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Is it folly to be wise or not?
PRO 4:7 Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.

ECC 1:18 For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.

1 Cor.1:19: "For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and wil bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent."


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Human vs. ghostly impregnation
ACT 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

MAT 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.


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The sins of the father
ISA 14:21 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.

DEU 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.


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The bat is not a bird
LEV 11:13 And these are they which ye shall have in abomination among the fowls; they shall not be eaten, they are an abomination: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray,
LEV 11:14 And the vulture, and the kite after his kind;
LEV 11:15 Every raven after his kind;
LEV 11:16 And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind,
LEV 11:17 And the little owl, and the cormorant, and the great owl,
LEV 11:18 And the swan, and the pelican, and the gier eagle,
LEV 11:19 And the stork, the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.

DEU 14:11 Of all clean birds ye shall eat.
DEU 14:12 But these are they of which ye shall not eat: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray,
DEU 14:13 And the glede, and the kite, and the vulture after his kind,
DEU 14:14 And every raven after his kind,
DEU 14:15 And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind,
DEU 14:16 The little owl, and the great owl, and the swan,
DEU 14:17 And the pelican, and the gier eagle, and the cormorant,
DEU 14:18 And the stork, and the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.


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Rabbits do not chew their cud
LEV 11:6 And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.

"Gerah," the term which appears in the MT means (chewed) cud, and also perhaps grain, or berry (also a 20th of a sheckel, but I think that we can agree that that is irrelevant here). It does *not* mean dung, and there is a perfectly adequate Hebrew word for that, which could have been used. Furthermore, the phrase translated "chew the cud" in the KJV is more exactly "bring up the cud." Rabbits do not bring up anything; they let it go all the way through, then eat it again. The description given in Leviticus is inaccurate, and that's that. Rabbits do eat their own dung; they do not bring anything up and chew on it.


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Insects do NOT have four feet
LEV 11:21 Yet these may ye eat of every flying creeping thing that goeth upon all four, which have legs above their feet, to leap withal upon the earth;
LEV 11:22 Even these of them ye may eat; the locust after his kind, and the bald locust after his kind, and the beetle after his kind, and the grasshopper after his kind.
LEV 11:23 But all other flying creeping things, which have four feet, shall be an abomination unto you.

I have loads more if you need them ...

The evidence for evolution is all around you - visit a natural history museum for some clues! Give me examples (let's say 3) of how it has been proven false (and Biblical anecdotes do NOT count as PROOF - I mean scientific empirical evidence!)

Then give me 3 examples of how the Bible has been proven true! (again: answers such as "because it is the word of God" do NOT count!)

On you go!

[Jarv]

This is the best thread EVAR! Keep it going boys. Didn't like it to start with, all that whinging about how how sh1t it is to live here. We all know Blair et-al are pillocks, but I still love this country and I'm staying put.

I suggest that after these two boys have put forward their manifestos we start a poll; does He exist. Vote suntan!

[Peakz]

I like having a suntan . . . but then I hardly have a choice!