What to buy with 30K max??

[JohnW]

Joules,

I think you firstly need to get clear the reasons for wanting to buy this next car.
You are talking about a pretty different set of cars.

The M5 is a high speed motorway barge that also needs work/money to make it corner well. Its a saloon too.
The RS4 comes into the same category imo, but is an estate (avant, whatever).
The M3 is a coupe or convertible, as is the normally aspirated 993.
993 Turbo 4 is coupe only.

Therefore I conclude that your not worried about what shape it is, or how many seats it has, correct ? [img]images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

So, is it strong residuals, street presence, exclusivity, or what your after ?

I've not driven an M5 but have run rings around one on the track in a n/a 993 (standard car). Likewise the same with an RS4 (although it did have the legs on me down the straights).

On the road though it could be a different story (I had an RS2 leave me behind on twisty roads, even though I could reel him in on the brakes).

Personally I wouldn't buy an M3 simply due to the sheer number of the things about now (especially local to me !).
An M5 is a nice car, but not my choice, and imo will still lose a fair percentage of its value yet.
The 993 is still dropping in value slowly, but is unaffected by boxster or 996 prices, as the buyers for them now are the enthusiasts that prefer the shape or the air(oil) cooled engine. Just compare late 993 with early 996 prices and you will see what I mean.

RS4 ?
Well, having just brought one I personally think their price will drop, but probably quite slowly, regarldless of how the S4 does. 3 year old cars have dropped roughly 10k, and I'd expect them to do the same for the next 3 years too.
This is not much more than my 993 has lost in 3 years, and a hell of a lot less than an M3 will have lost.
On the road the RS4 is quicker, but only because I don't drive right to the limit, and the RS4 will out accelerate it from bends. I honestly reckon that the 993 would have it on a track though, unless you splashed on suspension, brakes, etc for ther RS4.

So, what do you want :
track performance,
road performance,
road presence,
exclusivity,
strong residuals,
all of the above [img]images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Sorry, looks like I got a bit carried away there [img]images/graemlins/033102talk_1_prv.gif[/img]

One final point. I get more looks in the RS4 than I do in the 993. I think this is partly because the RS4 still looks new, whereas most people who know what the 993 is also know it is at least 5 years old now, so think of it as 'another old porsche'. That and the fact that there are fewer RS4s about.

Right, I'm done. You can all wake up now [img]images/graemlins/roflmao.gif[/img] [img]images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Cheers,
John.

[Joules]

Joules,


So, what do you want :
track performance,
road performance,
road presence,
exclusivity,
strong residuals,
all of the above [img]images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Umm??? well I am after the driving experience. NOT just power or speed plus looks are not too important. Value on the other hand is...

I wish RS4's where cheaper and my decision would be easy [img]images/graemlins/biggrin3.gif[/img]

[TimJMS]

Keep looking Joules. LHD imports are depressing the RHD market too. They are out there, less than perfect with mileage, but get snapped up quickly.

Might be giving you old news here, but I would go to

here

and

here

and

here Porsche forum

and

here

Even if you cant find one just yet, those sites contain a wealth of information to help you choose.

BTW it most definitely wasnt the M5 that impressed me that day (the car that :"cant keep close to an RS6 in the wet, or an E55 in the dry" [img]images/graemlins/033102ass_1_prv.gif[/img]) but the driver [img]images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] Twas my first ever lap of the Ring, and in truth any local boy with circuit knowledge driving a Saxo would have left me [img]images/graemlins/thumbs.gif[/img]

[JohnW]

I agree with Tim, have a good look on rennlist. It is a US based site, but has lots of european memmbers (me included).

For driveability it has to be the 993 for me, tt or normally aspirated.
The C2 is a slightly better balanced car, as the 4 wheel drive adds a bit of nose weight, and makes them tend to understeer, unless of course you fit PSS9 suspension, or RS anti roll bars, but then it starts to get a bit spendy [img]images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

I love the RS4 for its sheer power and looks, but personally the 993 gives me more driving pleasure (comparing standard cars here, although mine has PSS9s on it now).
Although I accept the BMWs are capable cars, they don't feature on my shopping list for the reasons I mentioned above.

I'd go shopping for a 993 C2S, and as late as possible with low miles. If you want info give me a mail, or have a look on the lists Tim mentions. One word of caution though - don't make your openning post "which is better 993 or 996" [img]images/graemlins/nodder.gif[/img] [img]images/graemlins/flamethrower.gif[/img]

911virgin is a good place to start too. Also get a hold of 911 & Porsche World mag, which has lots of ads (next months arrived on my doorstep yesterday).

Cheers,
John.
P.S. JohnH, you told me you had a 993 C2S so what's your view on which is beter to drive ?

[JohnH]

Have had a 993C2S and a 996C2 and must admit I still love the 993C2S for its looks and honesty. I think they made the 996 too much of a tourer whereas the 993 was a lot more fun to drive but not as dangerous as some of the earlier 911s.

Would agree look out for a late model 993C2S with low mileage although doubt you would get one for under 30K. The top condition ones are still going for 40K+ which is amazing for a 6 year old car!!!

[Joules]

Cheers Guys,

Sound advice I feel and the links are great [img]images/graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]

[Joules]

http://www.autoscout24.de/home/index/de ... d=19143085

The above site does seem good with RS4's around 30K??? my German is non existant so I cannot tell if these are dealers or private. In any case does anyone know if they are open to offers or are they rigid on prices???

[Prawn]

I went to a Porsche Club Track day at CC two weeks ago.
I have to say the only Porsche's quicker than the S4 were GT2, GT3 and a Porsche Cup race car (with Pro Driver).

Personally the thrill of passing £55K ~ £100K worth of car in my 'Banana limo' (as it was called at the start of the day, I was the only non Porsche there) was rather satisfying.
Suffice it to say there were a number of Porsche owners looking for the nearest Audi dealer by the end of the day
[img]images/graemlins/jump.gif[/img]

[gord]

Me again, you can usually tell on the ads on the autoscout24 and mobile.de sites whether the seller is a dealer and a lot of franchised and good non-franchised dealers advertise through them. Most of the dealers speak English.
Like the idea of a 993 - I saw a factory 3.8 (ie RS-engined) car one owner with low miles in Belgium for sale just a couple of weeks ago for about 23k. Was tempted myself but my garage is full at the mo. Can get the details if you want - I was in touch with the dealer directly. It's probably still around.
GM

[Joules]

Cheers Gord,

I'll PM you

Joules

[Riz_RS4]

Seen a BMW M5 i think Y-reg for £29,995 at Bently motors of Sheffield, heres the site but it seems to be down at the moment. seems a good price really. Bently`s of Sheffield

[Joules]

Cheers Riz,

I am milling a few things over?? Gords idea being a LHD 993 RS is a great idea and if I was even more patient I could wait for the RS4's to dip under 30k. Of course I would have to tweak mine in the mean time so as to keep interest!! [img]images/graemlins/thumbs.gif[/img]

[kcsun]

Think you may have to await a while mate.
Just had a discussion [img]images/graemlins/rocketwhore.gif[/img] with a dealer about a possible trade in on mine (Nov 2000 26k) he at first offered 30k but quickly upped it to 36K very reasonable I thought.

Still thinking about the deal though [img]images/graemlins/<beep>_you.gif[/img]

kc [img]images/graemlins/s4anogaro.gif[/img]

[wazza]

Ken - you know who's got first refusal on your car, don't you [img]images/graemlins/033102bigblink_1_prv.gif[/img]

[kcsun]

Did not think you liked hi tech interior Paul

Thought you was into leather only mate [img]images/graemlins/033102bigblink_1_prv.gif[/img]

kc [img]images/graemlins/s4anogaro.gif[/img]