Brake Judder

4.2 V8 32v FSI - 444 bhp
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noidea
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Re: Brake Judder

Post by noidea » Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:41 pm

Thundercliffe81 wrote:Ok.

So, the saga continues. Went to Redline and the good chaps there said they don't skim these brakes anymore.

Reason being, because they drilled on both sides, when they skim one side, it's leaving an impression (or something like it) on the opposite side. This 'impression' creates a drone-like sound and effectively creates just another issue.

Now, I've not read anyone on here, and with the B7 too, having this issue. So, I have another place that might do it for me. But Redline say they just replace the discs and pads on this car now. They did say it was a weird problem but explained it pretty well.

They also said it sounds like the rears as I'm getting vibration through pedal and wheel.

Looks like I'm booking into Audi. They said I should go back to Newcastle where I got it but that's a very long way away for a maybe. Think I'll book into one closer and attempt to get a truth diagnosis out of Audi. Yeah right...

This is becoming tedious but I did say when I got the car that I wanted to learn more about how things worked and not get fleeced.

Cheers guys.


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I think what they are describing is a ghosting effect you can get when the cutting tool goes over the hole. This tends to happen with an intermittent cut.
It will look like a repeat of the hole size.
The discs can be re-cut on a lathe ensuring they are running true to the mounting face and both sides cut in the same set up.
Have you measured the disc thickness, as all this talk of re-cutting is academic if they are close to the wear limit! Personally if your car has done over 40k miles I would just bite the bullet and replace them.

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Thundercliffe81
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Re: Brake Judder

Post by Thundercliffe81 » Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:44 pm

noidea wrote:
Thundercliffe81 wrote:Ok.

So, the saga continues. Went to Redline and the good chaps there said they don't skim these brakes anymore.

Reason being, because they drilled on both sides, when they skim one side, it's leaving an impression (or something like it) on the opposite side. This 'impression' creates a drone-like sound and effectively creates just another issue.

Now, I've not read anyone on here, and with the B7 too, having this issue. So, I have another place that might do it for me. But Redline say they just replace the discs and pads on this car now. They did say it was a weird problem but explained it pretty well.

They also said it sounds like the rears as I'm getting vibration through pedal and wheel.

Looks like I'm booking into Audi. They said I should go back to Newcastle where I got it but that's a very long way away for a maybe. Think I'll book into one closer and attempt to get a truth diagnosis out of Audi. Yeah right...

This is becoming tedious but I did say when I got the car that I wanted to learn more about how things worked and not get fleeced.

Cheers guys.


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I think what they are describing is a ghosting effect you can get when the cutting tool goes over the hole. This tends to happen with an intermittent cut.
It will look like a repeat of the hole size.
The discs can be re-cut on a lathe ensuring they are running true to the mounting face and both sides cut in the same set up.
Have you measured the disc thickness, as all this talk of re-cutting is academic if they are close to the wear limit! Personally if your car has done over 40k miles I would just bite the bullet and replace them.

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Fronts are fine mate. Thickness wise. I'm hoping to get booked in this week in order to 100% diagnose 'if' there is a warped disc and if so, where it is. If it's rears, they're getting replaced. ImageImage

Want it nipped this week. Haha.


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Covkiller
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Re: Brake Judder

Post by Covkiller » Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:51 pm

I'll best honest. My 1st set of AP disks on the way back from the ring were vibrating really bad on braking, I wasn't happy. I spoke to AP and they said this should not happen and under good will they honed them back by a thou (1k of an inch). This cured my vibration, they were clean clean like new when I got them back. But AP confirmed before the honing my disks were not warped. On these disks and the 2nd set I have only experienced vibration after hard use on the ring. I realised that drilling the holes out and cleaning cured my vibration, even taking my brakes apart to clean them. The moral here is that disks do not get distorted it is something else.

Thundercliffe, you're on a journey, but you will get to the bottom of it and you will look back when you have the problem again and know what to do as I did. Keep on going. This sort of issue exists on all high performance cars.
RS4 B7, Mugello Blue, K&W V3 & HR ARBs, set up by Centre Gravity, Milltek Valved Non Res & cat bypass pipes, BMC air filter, braided hoses, DOT 5.1, Terraclean, MRC Full Carbon Clean, MRC remap 448PS 477NM, 20" S7 alloys with 4mm spacers & Hawke spigots 66.6 > 57.1, AP Racing front discs. Sold Sept 2019. Now rocking an F80 M3

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Thundercliffe81
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Re: Brake Judder

Post by Thundercliffe81 » Sun Jan 13, 2019 11:49 pm

noidea wrote:
Thundercliffe81 wrote:Ok.

So, the saga continues. Went to Redline and the good chaps there said they don't skim these brakes anymore.

Reason being, because they drilled on both sides, when they skim one side, it's leaving an impression (or something like it) on the opposite side. This 'impression' creates a drone-like sound and effectively creates just another issue.

Now, I've not read anyone on here, and with the B7 too, having this issue. So, I have another place that might do it for me. But Redline say they just replace the discs and pads on this car now. They did say it was a weird problem but explained it pretty well.

They also said it sounds like the rears as I'm getting vibration through pedal and wheel.

Looks like I'm booking into Audi. They said I should go back to Newcastle where I got it but that's a very long way away for a maybe. Think I'll book into one closer and attempt to get a truth diagnosis out of Audi. Yeah right...

This is becoming tedious but I did say when I got the car that I wanted to learn more about how things worked and not get fleeced.

Cheers guys.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I think what they are describing is a ghosting effect you can get when the cutting tool goes over the hole. This tends to happen with an intermittent cut.
It will look like a repeat of the hole size.
The discs can be re-cut on a lathe ensuring they are running true to the mounting face and both sides cut in the same set up.
Have you measured the disc thickness, as all this talk of re-cutting is academic if they are close to the wear limit! Personally if your car has done over 40k miles I would just bite the bullet and replace them.

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Forgot to say. Yes! Ghosting is what he called it mate. Cheers for reminding me. They themselves though, used the lathe all lined up on the brake.

I've just not heard of that ghosting on here. To my knowledge.


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Thundercliffe81
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Re: Brake Judder

Post by Thundercliffe81 » Sun Jan 13, 2019 11:53 pm

Covkiller wrote:I'll best honest. My 1st set of AP disks on the way back from the ring were vibrating really bad on braking, I wasn't happy. I spoke to AP and they said this should not happen and under good will they honed them back by a thou (1k of an inch). This cured my vibration, they were clean clean like new when I got them back. But AP confirmed before the honing my disks were not warped. On these disks and the 2nd set I have only experienced vibration after hard use on the ring. I realised that drilling the holes out and cleaning cured my vibration, even taking my brakes apart to clean them. The moral here is that disks do not get distorted it is something else.

Thundercliffe, you're on a journey, but you will get to the bottom of it and you will look back when you have the problem again and know what to do as I did. Keep on going. This sort of issue exists on all high performance cars.
Spot on mate. Couldn't have said it better.

I knew when I got the car these things were gonna happen. Oh I do hope it's the rears haha. Fingers crossed! Goodwood is riding on this Image


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Thundercliffe81
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Re: Brake Judder

Post by Thundercliffe81 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:49 pm

Covkiller wrote:I'll best honest. My 1st set of AP disks on the way back from the ring were vibrating really bad on braking, I wasn't happy. I spoke to AP and they said this should not happen and under good will they honed them back by a thou (1k of an inch). This cured my vibration, they were clean clean like new when I got them back. But AP confirmed before the honing my disks were not warped. On these disks and the 2nd set I have only experienced vibration after hard use on the ring. I realised that drilling the holes out and cleaning cured my vibration, even taking my brakes apart to clean them. The moral here is that disks do not get distorted it is something else.

Thundercliffe, you're on a journey, but you will get to the bottom of it and you will look back when you have the problem again and know what to do as I did. Keep on going. This sort of issue exists on all high performance cars.
Booked into an independent specialist tomorrow to diagnose.

I'm still going with my gut and I reckon the cause is this:

Image

Reason being, this only happened after an 8hr journey. The first long journey I'd done. I think adaptive cruise, hill hold assist and the e-handbrake at the end of the journey. The last 15 miles of the journey were single track (heavy passing place numbers) and was primarily down hill with a 'tonne' of blind crests and bends. It felt like an age getting through it.

I think brake pad deposits were baked on from this and the 7hr trip back only added more heat from the adaptive cruise. As much as I love the hill hold assist at junctions and what not, I think I'm going to turn it off unless I'm on my commute (steady speeds, low heat).

It only appeared after that long trip. And I didn't drive that hard as hey, range was a factor haha. I've never tracked the car and don't intend to either.

Is there any way @SurreySam to disable the ACC and just have standard cruise control in VCDS?

Feel like a bit of a tit for not thinking about just leaving the car in 'park' and letting everything cool off. But hey, I'm aware of it now. Will let you guys know the verdict.

Ta


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Re: Brake Judder

Post by Covkiller » Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:07 pm

Mmmm sounds feasable for Auto cars with auto hand brakes. New cars eh, I just leave mine in gear after a good rinsing.
RS4 B7, Mugello Blue, K&W V3 & HR ARBs, set up by Centre Gravity, Milltek Valved Non Res & cat bypass pipes, BMC air filter, braided hoses, DOT 5.1, Terraclean, MRC Full Carbon Clean, MRC remap 448PS 477NM, 20" S7 alloys with 4mm spacers & Hawke spigots 66.6 > 57.1, AP Racing front discs. Sold Sept 2019. Now rocking an F80 M3

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Thundercliffe81
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Re: Brake Judder

Post by Thundercliffe81 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:17 pm

Covkiller wrote:Mmmm sounds feasable for Auto cars with auto hand brakes. New cars eh, I just leave mine in gear after a good rinsing.
Old school haha. I'm sure the e-brake comes on automatically when ignition is turned off. Tut.

Maybe just leave car running for a while in 'Park' if I do some serious miles or downhill stretches again.


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Re: Brake Judder

Post by MikeFish » Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:44 pm

Thundercliffe81 wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:17 pm
Covkiller wrote:Mmmm sounds feasable for Auto cars with auto hand brakes. New cars eh, I just leave mine in gear after a good rinsing.
Old school haha. I'm sure the e-brake comes on automatically when ignition is turned off. Tut.

Maybe just leave car running for a while in 'Park' if I do some serious miles or downhill stretches again.


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The e-brake on my 6 doesn't come on when you turn off the ignition. I know this because after I wash it I leave the hand brake off and then the next day I don't have my pads rusted onto the discs like they do when I do use the handbrake after washing.

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Re: Brake Judder

Post by Thundercliffe81 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:32 pm

MikeFish wrote:
Thundercliffe81 wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:17 pm
Covkiller wrote:Mmmm sounds feasable for Auto cars with auto hand brakes. New cars eh, I just leave mine in gear after a good rinsing.
Old school haha. I'm sure the e-brake comes on automatically when ignition is turned off. Tut.

Maybe just leave car running for a while in 'Park' if I do some serious miles or downhill stretches again.


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The e-brake on my 6 doesn't come on when you turn off the ignition. I know this because after I wash it I leave the hand brake off and then the next day I don't have my pads rusted onto the discs like they do when I do use the handbrake after washing.
I did not know that. Right, I'll give it a go. Hopefully the B8.5 platform is the same. But yeah, even just doing it after a wash is a great idea. Never mind when they're cooking. Nice tip.

I read on the B9 forums on ASN that was an issue. I think it applied when ignition was turned off. Maybe that's where I've got it.


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noidea
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Re: Brake Judder

Post by noidea » Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:22 am

Thundercliffe81 wrote:
MikeFish wrote:
Thundercliffe81 wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:17 pm
Old school haha. I'm sure the e-brake comes on automatically when ignition is turned off. Tut.

Maybe just leave car running for a while in 'Park' if I do some serious miles or downhill stretches again.


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The e-brake on my 6 doesn't come on when you turn off the ignition. I know this because after I wash it I leave the hand brake off and then the next day I don't have my pads rusted onto the discs like they do when I do use the handbrake after washing.
I did not know that. Right, I'll give it a go. Hopefully the B8.5 platform is the same. But yeah, even just doing it after a wash is a great idea. Never mind when they're cooking. Nice tip.

I read on the B9 forums on ASN that was an issue. I think it applied when ignition was turned off. Maybe that's where I've got it.


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It will automatically come on when you switch off and then take your seatbelt off. If you haven't got the belt on then it won't.

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Thundercliffe81
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Re: Brake Judder

Post by Thundercliffe81 » Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:21 pm

Had an ouchy of a day.

Garage thought it was rears that needed replacing. So went out and disconnected the rears to rest the front. Still judder on the fronts but not as bad.

I'm I'm really not sure what happened on that Scotland trip but they're all knackered. Pads on front are just above sensor mark. Discs are 50%. Rears are totally gone.

Quoted £2076 from where I got it tested. Already shot Crewe an email for parts Quote and I'll beat that by quite a bit. Thinking Ferodo pads all round.

Thoughts?

Not a good day. At least I know. Was expecting rears but definitely not fronts too. Thought it would either/or. My main concern is this happening again. As I didn't drive like a loony at all.


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Re: Brake Judder

Post by Thundercliffe81 » Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:25 pm

noidea wrote:
Thundercliffe81 wrote:
MikeFish wrote: The e-brake on my 6 doesn't come on when you turn off the ignition. I know this because after I wash it I leave the hand brake off and then the next day I don't have my pads rusted onto the discs like they do when I do use the handbrake after washing.
I did not know that. Right, I'll give it a go. Hopefully the B8.5 platform is the same. But yeah, even just doing it after a wash is a great idea. Never mind when they're cooking. Nice tip.

I read on the B9 forums on ASN that was an issue. I think it applied when ignition was turned off. Maybe that's where I've got it.


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It will automatically come on when you switch off and then take your seatbelt off. If you haven't got the belt on then it won't.

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I'm not getting your notifications ya know. Weird. Just seen this. So, take belt off , put in park, 'dont' apply e-brake and then switch off?


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Brake Judder

Post by Thundercliffe81 » Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:44 am

Hi guys.

Got a quote for Discs and pads. Only thing throwing me off is the front Pads. £330. It's crazy. I get the RRP is higher but I'm interested in Ferodo and hearing good things everywhere.

Can you guys clarify what this Part number is please? Are these the DS2500's? Just says 'Premier Brake Pad set' on their parts finder site.

Image
Image

Here are the rears:

Image
Image

It would be '2' boxes for the front axle yeah? Looking for everyday reliability, decent cold bite and good for fast road use. No track days.

Hopefully hear back from you as I need to order today. Car feels pants.

Cheers!


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Re: Brake Judder

Post by Covkiller » Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:58 am

Try these boys in Poland, I found them the cheapest and great service.

http://www.jdl-brakes.com
RS4 B7, Mugello Blue, K&W V3 & HR ARBs, set up by Centre Gravity, Milltek Valved Non Res & cat bypass pipes, BMC air filter, braided hoses, DOT 5.1, Terraclean, MRC Full Carbon Clean, MRC remap 448PS 477NM, 20" S7 alloys with 4mm spacers & Hawke spigots 66.6 > 57.1, AP Racing front discs. Sold Sept 2019. Now rocking an F80 M3

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