I'm Back! 12 years later - New RS4 + Advice!

Post by **boff** » Thu Mar 19, 2015 1:22 pm

Hello!!! Hoo Roooo!

So after 12 years of life happening, I've found myself in the following position - I need an all-round car that:

Carries the Family
- 2 kids
My Wife can drive after unexpected alcoholic beverage, or when her car is broken
- Not RS6 sized
Fits a dog
- Estate then
Looks cool
- Audi (I just cannot get on with the latest Merc Styling)
I can enjoy - post 911TT RS6 RRSSCH RS4 B5 RB320 CL182 STi etc etc!!
- Quick Enough!! v8 noise
Isn't tooooo silly on the money
- I.e. Not RS6 bills, and a HUNDRED grand for an estate car..... (I just cannot see my way past that either - no matter how quick)
Won't make me cry in depreciation
- Not a merc, or something very expensive, see previous point.
- Also the higher you climb, further you can fall....

Etc etc etc!!! you know where I'm going. I Bought an RS4 B5 for £55k 12 years ago - and now I'm looking to get back in one!!!

So about 4 weeks ago I borrowed the Nogaro Car that Epsom Audi has for a whole weekend (AWESOME Dealer - read on), and I was frankly hooked from the moment I stuck it in manual and dropped a few gears, and pointed it down the A3. This car is an absolute peach - meets everything I need, and being used to Audi's I'm not too fussed by some of the claimed weaknesses - steering etc (infact I didn't really have a problem there), the sports diff - wow, that's a cool bit of tech!!!

I have spent the last 4 weeks sourcing a car, I'm financing outside of Audi - and that has been a major lesson in it's own right. Seems that buying for cash in effect makes a massive difference to the negotiation and really highlights a decent and legal dealer - from possibly illegal dealers...

So reason for the post - if you are looking for a car from Audi, I've built up quite a network whilst on this search - and I'll share, also happy to answer questions PM or on here - there's some great cars waiting to be snapped up!!!

My key learning - Audi & Dealer CANNOT legally differentiate the price between Financing a car and Cash - THIS IS ILLEGAL FSA rules state that you cannot use a discount to drive someone to your finance product.

I have had a few dealers say:

to get £4k off you should finance it with us - that is illegal
why not take the finance to get the discount, then cancel it in a few days after you pick up the car - i.e. settle the finance - AGAIN illegal

Audi Dealers want you to buy new cars via finance, and if you are paying cash buy a used car. The truth is that the commission scheme that the guys are under means that they are incentivised to sell the finance, and human nature pushes them that way. This is a very grey area indeed.

I'm not sure it is fair to name and shame these guys, but my advise - if this is the way they pitch the finance, run the other way - dodgy!!

So if you are looking for a car right now, and this is only limited to my experience - i.e. who I called:

Stephen Reed at Epsom Audi is a legend, quite possibly the best car salesman I have ever met (I'm a sales guy in IT) - I respect his approach 100%, consultative and frankly sold me on the RS4, just the stock he had wasn't for me. Epsom Audi are also a great dealer, servicing etc - all good.

Martin Roberts at Audi City London is clinical (i respect that), and great - if you want to do a deal, worth a call. They have quite a few cars coming through (Sytner Group - oh and with Sytner blue light cards get a discount - so if the other half is a nurse, doctor, police, army, fire, etc etc)

Watford Audi - Chris is great

Stafford Audi - NOW then, these guys have a lot of stock, and will look to do a deal on their huge list of nicely spec'd standard cars. I was talking to Mark there.

In general folks, Audi's are just walking out of the door - these sales guys are just making hay right now, that leaves them hard to contact and quite often leaves me doing the chasing and not them. Drive a hard RS4 deal and they'll get paid way less than if they sell an A3 from a walk in - so motivation is low!

However - returning phone calls is something that I run my business on, and it's unacceptable if you don't do it or leave it too long.

If everything goes well - I'll reveal just how daft I've been!! - Red Wheels!! lol

Great news is there are loads of cars hanging around, over 100 at the moment, and I reckon they'll need to get them moving before the B9 (S4 I suppose to start)

Post by **miatang** » Thu Mar 19, 2015 4:23 pm

Nice write up there. Didnt knw that the finance contribution thing was illegal. Maybe they get around it by calling it a finance contribution as opposed to a discount, I'm not sure.

My experience with Stafford Audi was some what different. I spoke to Paul and he was very helpful, guess each sales guy has their own way of doing things.

Red wheels all good mate, if you like that sort of thing

Post by **boff** » Thu Mar 19, 2015 7:25 pm

Ah haa! so it's the matt black rotors, with the red edge - i have spent many hours wondering if I'll like it!!

But then my RS6 was Missano Red Saloon with the Silver - or White frankly interior. There's clearly an out there edge to me

Stafford were great, but understandably protecting the margin they can make on the ltd edition cars, that's it really.

I'm really glad to be back in these sort of cars, and delighted that it's an Audi RS4, guys these cars are perfect - and that's why we all love them? that's a problem as - as much as we are hardened business men.... for some reason cars bring us to our knees!!!

Post by **boff** » Thu Mar 19, 2015 7:27 pm

Also - I'm not sure the Deposit Contribution thing is illegal, however - what is a fact is that FSA would bring a dealer to their knees if they'd been positioning a discount to goto their finance instead of cash / another financing method

Post by **aled_31** » Thu Mar 19, 2015 9:33 pm

Not really getting the problem with the finance contribution, this is Extra Discount!! You should be offered this on top of any cash discount you have agreed on the deal (provided you take the finance). This comes from Audi Financial Services and not directly from the dealer. Audi have been pushing finance contributions through for years in this way. If their finance contributions were in breach of any FSA rules then they wouldn't have been around for so long.

Any dealer who will only offer you a £4k discount if you take the finance is effectively not giving you any discount themselves at all as the £4k discount comes from Audi FS.

You should be looking for a cash discount in the region of 10% (pre vat), then take the extra £4k on top. If you then choose to cancel the finance agreement within 14 days using your right to withdraw, Audi FS cannot claim the £4k back.

Car bought cash = circa 10% discount
Car bought on finance = 10% plus £4k = circa 18% discount.

Post by **boff** » Thu Mar 19, 2015 9:47 pm

Naah buddy, most people agree that 12-13% is the max, so here's the score. The dealers get 13.8% margin pre vat and pre on the road costs. Thats on an rs4 (not other models as it varies) soo you have to look at it as a cash deal as the dealer / audi contribution is factored into this. Its not smart to smack all the margin out of the deal as the dealer has operational costs to cover (we all need to make money). However you cannot take the 13.8% and then expect the extra 4k!!! This is all factored in and what makes a deal. Of course the dealerships make a volume or back end rebate, but selling a few rs cars will nit hit that.

Buddy you are talking like you should push the deal and then add the dealer rebate - no. The car is a car with a cost and resell, audi cannot position the contribution to drive you to finance, fact (ask them). At the end of the day we are all buying a product with a cost and resell. The deal we should all do should suit us both

Post by **HYFR** » Thu Mar 19, 2015 9:58 pm

What's the doc fee on writing the finance?

£1k?

GAP, LifeShine, Service Plan

There is more than one way to skin a cat.

Also give they are on run out, Audi UK are likely putting extra support behind the cars to get em gone.

Post by **boff** » Thu Mar 19, 2015 10:09 pm

That's the exact point, i don't know on the extras, but come on guys! We all have to get paid!!! If you buy an rs4 for more than 7% off the sales guy gets £100 in commission, ie £60 in the bank..... Or sell an a3 on a walk in?

Post by **kmpowell** » Thu Mar 19, 2015 10:11 pm

boff wrote:most people agree that 12-13% is the max

Nope, I got 15.25% discount.

Post by **boff** » Thu Mar 19, 2015 10:15 pm

Thats a great deal mate, all i'm saying is that people do need to earn - and the dealers have opex to cover, otherwise we'd have zero support. The fact is that dealers are mainly funded by walk ins and consumers that dont negotiate like us, by taking the best deal and expecting the world in terms of service - are we right? Is it clever to knock the arse out of a deal?

Post by **RIV** » Thu Mar 19, 2015 10:21 pm

Nope, I got 15.25% discount.

Show off

Post by **boff** » Thu Mar 19, 2015 10:23 pm

Mate - again perfect, but is it really that clever!!! Lol dealer goes bust, families are destroyed. Well done

Post by **boff** » Thu Mar 19, 2015 10:27 pm

Ahh bugger riv i now get you are taking the mickey!!!

Post by **aled_31** » Thu Mar 19, 2015 10:30 pm

boff wrote:Naah buddy, most people agree that 12-13% is the max, so here's the score. The dealers get 13.8% margin pre vat and pre on the road costs. Thats on an rs4 (not other models as it varies) soo you have to look at it as a cash deal as the dealer / audi contribution is factored into this. Its not smart to smack all the margin out of the deal as the dealer has operational costs to cover (we all need to make money). However you cannot take the 13.8% and then expect the extra 4k!!! This is all factored in and what makes a deal. Of course the dealerships make a volume or back end rebate, but selling a few rs cars will nit hit that.

Buddy you are talking like you should push the deal and then add the dealer rebate - no. The car is a car with a cost and resell, audi cannot position the contribution to drive you to finance, fact (ask them). At the end of the day we are all buying a product with a cost and resell. The deal we should all do should suit us both

Things must have changed since I bought my first B8 then, maybe the finance contribution was higher back then?? Back in April 14 I spec'd and ordered a car that listed at just over £60k and ended up paying £49k for it. This consisted of approx 10% discount from dealer and £4k finance contribution from Audi FS. Drove the car out of the showroom on the Saturday and settled the finance on the Monday with no comeback on the £4k. Without signing the finance doc's I would have had to settle for 10%.

Post by **boff** » Thu Mar 19, 2015 10:34 pm

Im no lawyer, but nice deal

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