Exhausts!! It's time!! Which One :-)

[clippyRS4]

What is the wrong reason, and what is the right reason?
For me, exhausts on RS cars are mainly for sound reasons. The choice in exhaust will primarily be based on how good it sounds, then on quality and price. So if a exhaust sounds better (subjective), is equal quality and a fraction of the price why is that the wrong reason?

Or are your comments aimed at the akra? I'm a little confused as you sound like you are all saying the JC is not as good as the Capristo or Akra and it is the most popular for the wrong reasons (whatever that means) but the akra is the most popular by far?
I just don't get the fascination with the akra. I don't like the sound (ok some of you do) and think they are way over priced and offer no performance gain. Or do people pick them cos they are the most expensive and assume this must mean it is the best exhaust?

My comment was aimed mainly at Akrapovic and Milltek. Milltek is cheap (which is good) but you get what you pay for it. Drone is unacceptable in my book, shouldnt happen at all with properly tuned exhaust and is a sign of very poor tuning. Akra on the other hand, is too overpriced, coupled with titanium disadvantages, and tbh, I dont find the sound that special or memorable for such an expensive exhaust. And i really dont understand, why so many people vote for it. I guess it is just some kind of brand obssession, and part of people vote for it only because it says Akrapovic, without even seeing it in flesh or hearing it. All bikers rave about Akrapovic, so it must be the ONE! Which is flawed.

On the other hand, how many of those voters have actually got their hands on JCWeld? Maybe I am wrong, and feel free to correct me, I wont take offense. But i strongly believe their pick is based on few posts on forums. So far, there have been enthusiastic comments, promises, ravings and what have you, but where is the actual product? Numbers, stats? I will be happy if owners get another decent exhaust option but its just vapor so far. I was firmly decided to got for RS3, and I would defend that car to blood, before I could even drive it or see it. Then something broke inside me and went for RS4. After RS3 was launched, i never regretted my decision. It was very disappointing test drive and wouldnt trade, ever. I learned a lesson from that, and that's why i find it hard to believe how can someone vote for exhaust he has never heard or seen. So far, the only people who can judge JC system is Ross and the team behind the JC Weld.

But hey, let everyone choose what they want and like. But polls such as this one have no value at all if people dont base their votes on actual experience. Afsimba summed it up perfectly and I couldnt have wrote it better. Thats why he has my thumbs up and why i picked Capristo.

[Noyjatat]

Agreed we definitely need to get a few of the variants together with some decent sound equipment across the RS models we can and do a day out

Was interesting to find out via another thread that JCWF use the same grade Stainless as Milltek and both are mandrel bent although not sure if there is a thickness difference. I think the extra money is the removal of the drone and the extra time put into the welds, fitment to the car and tweaking the sound to your tastes.

[Surrey Sam]

I love how people talk about unjustifiable cost and titanium disadvantages? There are many forms of titanium now as the material is better understood and has evolved over the last few decades. It's now widely utilised within the military, airline, and medical industries and often quoted as being around 30% stronger than stainless and far lighter. I do appreciate the brittle argument but it's an archaic one, considering the materials evolution. For a naturally aspirated engine the EGT's will run around 600-750 centigrade which is well within the materials optimal operational range. McLaren use it for their 657LT exhaust for example, so it can't be that bad as the naysayer's would have you believe! Titanium is a good product and just like the Carbon Ceramic brake argument that often happens on here. It's always the people who've never had first-hand experience of these products that argue vehemently about it them not being any good. Yet those who do use them...rate them.

Akrapovic have a wealth of experience having worked with stainless steel for many years under the previous Scorpion exhaust name. Before deciding to re-brand as Akrapovic and invest heavily into moving their products forward by building a new factory with almost unrivalled facilities. In 2010 they continued striving forwards by building their own foundry facility where they can create all the castings, pipe stock, brackets and fittings. There's a metallurgy lab onsite to x-ray and analyse the metal stock produced, an autoclave oven for the manufacturing of the carbon fibre, all this to ensure that as much as possible is kept in house with quality control kept at the highest level. Like Capristo, they 3D scan the cars to get the best fitting and smoothest gas flow, an in house dyno is utilised to measure developments systems and improvements against the standard OEM exhaust. All this whilst employing around 450 staff to manufacturer both street and motorsport exhaust applications. They supply BMW, Aston Martin, Porsche and Audi within the car motorsport sector with Audi wining the Le-Man 24 hrs multiple times using their exhaust system, Akrapovic also supplied BAR/Honda with exhaust systems back in the V10 Formula 1 era. I won't even go into their greater success within the Motorcycle sector, other than to say, just last week the Tyco BMW team won the Isle of Man TT whist setting a new lap record using a bike fitted with an Akrapovic system. They're not some back street outfit who haven't got a clue, instead they have decades of proven provenance within this field.

Perhaps that's a little window into why they are voted number 1?

Sound is a subjective matter. As what one man likes, another will dislike. I personally don't like the Miltek non res and the JCW system, as they're far too raucous and loud. Others love that attribute and can't comprehend why you'd spend £0000's for little gains in volume. As Gaz said before, it'd be nice to get some systems all together, which would then help people to decide for themselves. As it's great having choice for our cars.

[Afsimba]

This^
I believe jc weld are being voted for the reasons stated above ! no one on here heard one
Seen one and until a week ago known the price except Ross so why root for something u know zero about other than intent ? That they will deliver ! And I'm not convinced they have 100% zero drone need Ross to confirm this ?? And after all this he's selling the car anyway ! Nothing wrong with cottage industry some of the most bespoke services and fine craftsmen work for them ! But these guys are like a beer fart in a tornado and using caveman techniques amongst the capristo and akraprovic of the world ! This is one place innovation materials and technology wins period !!!!

[RossDagley]

Yes completely drone free in valve closed position (comfort or individual if you've set it).

Buy what you like obviously. I genuinely don't care - it's your money! I like to support the little guy, and believe an exhaust is pretty much all about the sound (except where boosted car are involved, and then it's about making more power too). For me, having heard a few now, I really rate the JCWF system. It's stock Audi sport system sounding when you want it, and raw v8 when you want that.

For 50% of the price of a capristo, for me, it's a no brainer. My comments about the titanium exhausts (fragility) come from JCWF who have exhausts in frequently to repair - ironically some stock systems from high end cars. Ask them if you want any more info on that.

If you're not sure on lead time or price, so perhaps phone them rather than asking me as I have no idea what the actual retail price is going to be. I'm speculating (within best guesstimates). :/

[Surrey Sam]

Never has chaos been so disorganised!

Prices were published in August last year. Yet we're still waiting to see the tailpipe finishes stated by JCW in the thread below.

viewtopic.php?f=112&t=116347

By the time a B9 RS4 hits the streets, they might just have a finished product for the B8.

[RossDagley]

Yes unfortunately supporting local business has its drawbacks.

They don't have the ability (or money) to go and buy a brand new car like the big players do. Not the laser scanning equipment, nor 90% of the other items you mentioned. :/ so instead they replace it all with hard work, trial and error, experience and patience.

They also have to wait to have a car to test on - and given I've twice now taken the car back from them without warning when I've loaned it to them, it's very unfair to blame them for the delays.

I appreciate you think I'm supporting them blindly Sam, but equally you're coming across quite aggressively against them. And I don't understand why really.

Prices on the b8 system from JCWF haven't been finalised to my knowledge. If I've said something different previously (or they have themselves) then I don't remember/that's news to me. It will be in the ballpark of £2-2.5k though I suspect depending on options.

Regarding the carbon tips, that's another (3rd party) who's let them down that's caused the delays. No doubt akrapovic employ 50+ people to make perfect carbon parts. Jon and Michael don't so it's outsourced. To a very well known uk carbon supplier. Who's basically let them down. :/

[Afsimba]

So this system is more than my brand new capristo bought from Scuderia systems ! Not ones knocking Jc but as I said these companies can be found on the edge of virtually any industrial estate

[FaisalJ]

If you'll indulge the opinion of a B7 owner for a minute....

Just want to echo the comments that have also pointed out that exhaust choice is largely personal preference for sound.

Any aftermarket exhaust that has fewer catalysts and other impediments to gas flow is going to give a small power gain. I doubt there are large variations between the popular choices of exhaust.

Where there are large variations, is in sound. This where the personal preference comes in. Some want a quiet exhaust with a different tone, others don't mind a bonkers loud setup. For me, I heard a JCWF on a B7 and I liked the sound better than the other setups I heard, and I liked the fact that it is only bonkers when I want it to be, and perfectly liveable the rest of the time. So I got one! I love it, but it's not going to suit everyone.

The only other consideration, is quality of materials and workmanship. I've heard about some dubious Milltek systems, but I doubt JCWF, capristo or akrapovic are going to cause any issues due to poor quality.

It's all about what noise you want!

While we wait for more vids of the B8 JCWF system, I'll re-post this vid of a JCWF on my B7 for anyone that hasn't already seen it. I tried to highlight the massive difference in noise between valves open and closed. Apologies to those that have already seen it when posted in the B7 section.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65SZXj4fTXA

[smudge]

Yes completely drone free in valve closed position (comfort or individual if you've set it).

Apologies, but I can't be arsed searching through each and every post re the JCFW, but isn't this a slight change in stance? I understood you claimed no drone full stop. I genuinely have to try and force drone in the Cap with the VALVES OPEN. Even then I struggle. There are members on here that have paid witness to this also..... So it's not just my word.

You may question why I highlight this Ross. The main reason is I have find all the posts you have placed on here supporting something to the hilt a little odd. Almost like you're an advertising mechanism for JCFW. Perhaps I am wrong and perhaps JCFW are an all out great bunch of guys doing an awesome job, but your enthusiasm has made me quite skeptical I'm afraid. Ironic huh?

As for my reasons to buy the Cap, over anything else? Well, before I even looked at the quality of build, Akra was beyond what I felt reasonable for an upgraded exhaust. I wanted to purchase an alternative system because I didn't think the V8 was vocal enough. I had no expectation on gains regardless of brand. So that left me with HMS, Capristo & Milltek at that time. HMS had no presence in the UK.... So regardless of that brutal dyno vid, it was off the list. As much as I had heard of and heard the Capristo product (on an RS5), I didn't know that much about them. So I did some reasearch. When compared to Milltek, I was genuinely keen to keep my business british. That was until I spoke to the Master Tech at my Audi dealer, who fed back that over the past few years he had sadly seen the build quality of Milltek exhausts dwindle. ith that in mind, I chose the Cap. Since then, hassle free happiness, no drone, lots of noise on tap when required, all for a decent price (in my opinion).

As many state, it's all subjective. If you seriously want to up the anti and get an aftermarket exhaust, do some research with set criteria of your needs. That way you should be happy at least.

[RossDagley]

I've beaten the JCWF drum to death and frankly am sick of trying to defend a product that needs no defence.

If you want to hear one, buy one or listen to someone elses. I believe there are now B8's booked with JCWF so that shouldn't be too hard to organise now.

I've wasted enough of my life arguing the toss over something that frankly i don't give a <beep> about anymore - several people on this thread, including you, have worn me down to the point where I'm not prepared to reply anymore. If that was the objective, congratulations. If it wasn't, then perhaps review the posts you've made and see if you can figure out why.

Either way - I'm done here. Unsubscribing. Enjoy your exhausts.

[Surrey Sam]

It wasn't my intention for you to throw in the towel Ross, but it's your choice.

Before you go, have any dyno runs been done with this finalised completed system? Would be nice to see how/if the curves and figures are affected by the new exhaust system, after all this work has been put in by JCWF and yourself. I know that you stated earlier on in the thread, that a base line one had been carried out with your OEM Audi Sports system.

Would be nice to bring this saga to an end and have the info out there for people to make their own mind up.

[smudge]

It wasn't my intention for you to throw in the towel Ross, but it's your choice.

Nor mine Ross. No need to be so sensitive, perhaps have a think about all of the statements you've made. You have really beaten that drum, when there is nothing to back up the beat..... It makes it all seem like you have lots to gain whilst we sit here looking at nothing but words, over a long period of time. Can you blame the skepticism?

If many have ordered, then happy days. I too hope they are happy. I say ironic in my last post because it really is. Not only is there little to go on and still no fully finished product, but I understand you're also selling up? Additionally, you confess you've not heard all systems in person. Hardly the best basis for a review / comparison thread..... Just saying.

I'm no keyboard warrior, I'm just stating what I see as facts. Some people come on here read information posted and will then go off spending their hard earned cash on what they think is a going to be a great product, but right now - and throughout this entire thread to date, you can't actually prove any of it, can you? I can't fully comment on JC or Akro as I've not been a passenger / driver in a car with either. I've heard an Akro from the outside and sat in and driven a Milltek, so I have some basis to compare. But I'm not stating that the Cap is the best available, its the best for what I wanted. Big difference.......

Don't sulk, go back and have a look at your posts with an open mind and try to see it how others would. That is all.

[FaisalJ]

It's getting a bit Audizine in here.

I think Ross deserves a lot of credit for submitting his car for development of the system. Seems to me that some of the frustration at JCWF's slow progress has been pointed in the direction of Ross.

Now some other B8's are getting booked in with JCWF, I'm sure a lot more info will be forthcoming and it will be easier for you guys to assess which of the exhaust options suit your needs.

At the end of the day - surely it's a good thing to have another option on the table now?

[smudge]

It's getting a bit Audizine in here.

I don't go on there so I couldn't comment, but I think my comments are being misunderstood. Maybe I'm coming across wrong?

I think Ross deserves a lot of credit for submitting his car for development of the system. Seems to me that some of the frustration at JCWF's slow progress has been pointed in the direction of Ross....

Maybe, maybe not. My comments are pointed at the fact that Ross has been praising something that isn't available and to an extent critical of something he hasn't fully appreciated in person. I don't think that's an unreasonable thing to highlight?

At the end of the day - surely it's a good thing to have another option on the table now?

Totally agreed. Like I stated, I wanted to find a more 'home based' product when I searched, but Milltek just wasn't ticking the box. The delays that JCFW have experienced could be deemed as good as well as bad. Without true details and facts on the company, it's processes and so on, it's hard to gauge what is reality. You can only compare what else has happened from other manufacturers. That's for JCFW to deal with, which hopefully will be done by the product when it comes out.