Pulling to the left still after alignment and wheel change

[TimRS]

Hi All,

First post here, I picked up a '14 plate RS4 (20k miles) at the beginning of November from a main dealer.

Since I've had it I've noticed a slight pull to the left requiring the wheel to be held at about 5 past (on the clock-face), if that, but it's enough to slowly think "this isn't right" after checking that it wasn't the camber of certain roads or tyre pressures. Admittedly I didn't take it in as soon as I should have, it didn't seem a massive issue and I was enjoying driving the car too much!

Anyway, eventually I took it into my local Audi, not where I bought it from and paid £140 for a diagnosis and 4-wheel alignment. The Audi I bought it from has offered to pay half stating how do they know I've not bashed it since I've had it, not great customer service when we're talking £140 on a £40k spend, but a fair comment. It comes back from my local Audi with the issue maybe 50% improved, I tell them it's still not right and after a bit of a debate they accept that I wanted the issue diagnosed and resolved, not just the alignment sorted. I go out for a drive with their 'master tech' who agrees it's not right, says that the tyres may have been affected by the alignment previously being out. The car goes back in and has the backs moved to the front and vice versa and the alignment done again for free. I drive the car and if i release the steering wheel it drifts slowly to the left as i believe it's supposed to, however the steering wheel is still pointing to 5 past (ish), if I hold it level it results in a veer off to the left. Also, on the first enthusiastic roundabout, I'm now noticing under-steer that wasn't there previously, is this likely to be as a result of the tyre change round and it'll sort itself out?

Last time I time I took the car back i was made to feel like I was nit picking, but in my mind this isn't a machine I want to be thinking "well I'll just put up with that". Am I nit-picking? Shall just shut up and drive it? Get a second opinion from another garage? Go back to my garage and get them to look at it a third time (not sure what good this will do)? Are these the kind of machines that you can just get into endless tweaking with trying to get them 'perfect'?

Cheers for any help and sorry for the ramble!

Tim

[Mr spoonz]

How long had it been since you bought the car to taking it in or mentioning it to them etc?

Mine does not do this. It drives in a straight line when letting go and is spot on angle on the wheel even when letting go. The roads round here are bad too...
Mine on roundabouts does not under steer either it sucks you round the corner.

I would of been tempted to threaten handing the car back if it was within the cooling off period.

I think you need to be fighting it personally if money like that leaves your hands on it after such a short time. I think asking the question would You b happy with the service your given me right now to the service/sales person and put them in that corner rather than shouting at them.

Where abouts do u live too. As if they haven't got another model for you to try to see if it feels different I'm sure a Member on the forum would assist.

[johnnydog]

Having gone through similar issues myself following a replacement windscreen and the subsequent adaptions needed, I also had a 4 wheel alignment done. The basic reasons for this was that when I agreed the purchase of my car from Audi when it was 3 months old, the steering wheel was off centre, and it bugged me. I got the supplying dealer to check the alignment and geometry, which they did saying they made minor adjustments. I got the results sheet with the before and after readings, but to be honest the steering never really felt right and it was still off centre; towards 10-4 rather than dead straight. The alloys were perfect, so it wasn't a kerbing issue.
Needing a new screen, I tried to get this matter rectified at the same time.
The second 4 wheel alignment greatly improved matters, apparantly the front toe was out slightly; not enough to show wear on the tyres however. The steering wheel was a lot better although not 100%. Being a bit anal, I asked for the alignment to be rechecked in an attempt to get the steering 'bob on'. I later spoke to the Mastertech that performed it, and he said that he checked it twice again, and the settings were perfect, but then he had corrected the offset steering wheel which is performed electronically.
The interest point he mentioned was that my car was fitted with a electric motor on the steering column (not all cars have it - it depends on the type of sttering fitted, I'm not sure about what it's called, possibly dynamic steering?!?). To correctly rectify an offset steering wheel with my type of steering, the whole geometry needs to checked, and then its done on the computer only if the steering wheel is more than 2 degrees off centre. It won't do it if it is less than 2 degrees. Mine was 2 degrees 37 minutes off centre so it allows the steering to be reset. In lay mans terms, I presume that there may be 180 teeth on one of the cogs in the motor, and therefore 2 degrees equates to one tooth adjustment.
But it now drives as I would expect, and the steering wheel is perfectly straight (maybe 37 minutes out!!! but that really is splitting hairs!).
It is worth knowing that not all Audi centres have the calibration equipment for our cars. I know that my nearest dealer 12 miles away doesn't have it, but the dealer I have used for the last 10 years who is about 30 miles away does. And it needs someone's who actually knows and understands the equipment!
It may be worth asking the question.....

[TimRS]

Thanks both, good to know I'm not going nuts!

I got the car at the end of Oct/beginning of Nov, didn't get it looked at until 31st Dec. The dealer I bought the car from (Coulsdon) is a good 3hrs away, my local is Northampton, I travelled for the car/spec.

Regarding the oversteer, I checked the tyre pressures today, they've given it back to me with 14PSI in the nearside front!!! How they have tested the car and given it the OK with a virtually flat tyre, I have no idea. I've also had a min oil light just come on, something I thought would have formed part of the "checking the car over for me" they said they were going to do.

I've just emailed Northampton back raising the above and saying it's really not good enough and that my confidence in them is severely damaged. If it transpires that something needs correcting that can't be as a result of me doing something to the car, then I'll take that up with Coulsdon, although I don't have the time or inclination to go back to them which is probably going to make things more convoluted than they need to be.

I'm going to follow up my email with your post @johnnydog and ask if they have the right equipment/skills.

Cheers!!

[Surrey Sam]

Good reading there Johnnydog and to add in my two-penneth.

I had a gearbox replacement carried out by Audi and when the car was finally handed back to me, the steering wheel was out of alignment. It was fine before the work commenced having only covered 5k miles since new. So I returned the car to the dealership for them to rectify the issue along with a couple of other niggles. This was sorted very easily and the car was returned with steering wheel alignment corrected. So I imagine that they carried out a process in the way Johnnydog describes.

[johnnydog]

In addition to my last post above, the dealer that carried out the correct adjustments know me and my cars having been a long time customer. I bought the car from a different Audi dealership (it was purely that they had the car with the spec I wanted at the time) whom I didn't really have much confidence in to do the work as they said initially there was no problem with the steering and I had to push for them to check it.
I would try to get the issue checked at a dealership you trust and have the equipment, and see if the supplying dealer will pay for it once the problem has been correctly diagnosed. You may have to pay for it first and then get refunded. Worth a try.

[innercry666]

This had been on ongoing issue for me on both the RS4 and an A4 quattro I had previously. Also driven quite a few A4 / A5's that have the same issue.

Had the RS4 from new and the steering wheel was slightly off center. Had Tamworth Audi do an alignment and it came back much worse. Had Centre of Gravity align the car and it was improved but not fully resolved. Had the front shocks replaced last year and had Nottingham Audi do and the re-do and then re-do the alignment again to get it right.

Having spent time with the Master Tech discussing the issue we think we found out why the issue persisted for so long - the car needs to be aligned with the engine running so that the steering is powered. It's not in any of the manuals to do this but it makes a difference. With the engine off the alignment of centre axis of the geometry is always off centre and always to the left so you have to apply a bit of right hand down to go straight. The steering angle sensor also needs to be calibrated at the end of the session to ensure that it is centred to the new steering rack position.

It took 4 years to find the solution and a lot of arguments with Audi over that time.

[Andy_S]

Hi,

Sounds like the issue I had when I first got my car, took me 4 months to get it sorted.

The issues with the steering is basically that the centre point of the rack is 'virtual' not a fixed point. So if it's out of calibration you get the funny out of balance feeling and the wheel out of centre.

If you've got VCDS it's quite an easy fix. I wrote a guide here: viewtopic.php?f=61&t=110111&start=75
Quick update below though.

The issue is with the calibration of the active steering. If you turn the steering all the way to the right, it's a mechanical stop at the end of the rack, but if you go all the way to the left, it's not a fixed stop point.
Basically you need to recalibrate the end stops and centre point of the rack, on the guide above you do turn the wheel all the way to the right and wait for the beep, but when you turn all the way to the left, you don't turn the wheel as far as it will go, rather you need to stop when the wheel is at the same angle it was when it was full lock to the right. From memory the flat bottom of the wheel is at about 45 degrees. Once you've got the wheel at the same angle as it was at the right, hold it steady until you get the beep.

Hope this points you in the right direction.

Andy

[Revolution]

We will happily have a look at your car for you but were based up in Gateshead..

failing that, get yourself on alignmycar.co.uk and look for your nearest Hunter Alignment specialist

We've had success in the past & if the Hunter equipment can't fix it, send it back to Audi and reject

Hope that helps

Big Glenn

[TimRS]

Thanks for all the info, I've forwarded much of it to Northampton Audi who have escalated my issue internally, I get the distinct impression they don't know what they're doing though.