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Will a tune update be needed?

If it's just a direct replacement for the OEM ones on a stock/stage 2 car then no, however if you're doing it for more power then yeap an existing Tune would need a tweak to map for the new IC's to get the best from them.

IanH755 wrote:If it's just a direct replacement for the OEM ones on a stock/stage 2 car then no, however if you're doing it for more power then yeap an existing Tune would need a tweak to map for the new IC's to get the best from them.

The car I'm buying has an mtm tune, and since mtm doesn't use aftermarket intercoolers, I wanted to see if just fitting them would benefit through ecu adaptations

I had a stage 2 tune with the Wagner intercoolers fitted and was very happy with the result but my carvwas restricted by still having a stock cat back exhaust, so I don't believe the time would have been any different with the stock intercooler, however if your car is at the stage where the intercoolers are holding it back then it would probably benefit from a map tweaka

I have no idea. Myself living in Greece and having always higher Brent temperatures I'd say it would never be a bad thing having lower IATs. I'm just hoping the ecu will take that under consideration without having a tweak as I doubt mtm would bother.

Also the car already benefits from a full mtm exhaust so I suspect that shouldn't be a restriction

VaudiGR wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 10, 2021 5:38 pm

IanH755 wrote:If it's just a direct replacement for the OEM ones on a stock/stage 2 car then no, however if you're doing it for more power then yeap an existing Tune would need a tweak to map for the new IC's to get the best from them.

The car I'm buying has an mtm tune, and since mtm doesn't use aftermarket intercoolers, I wanted to see if just fitting them would benefit through ecu adaptations

It's unlikely as a Stage 2 MTM tune (est 700-740hp) isn't restricted by the IC's so the ECU won't adapt outside of it's set parameters. You'd really need a tweak to the map to take into account the new IC's if you were after extra power but, TBH, the amount gained will be fairly small.

Thanks Ian

The car is meant to be the 800+ package from mtm so mtm turbos. I know that a tweak would be nice but given the options but I'm wondering if using them and letting the map do its thing would be a benefit.

My main concern is that in Greece we see ambient temps of above 30 and in the summer 40C which would hamper the IATs

I have the TTE1000 turbos + Wagner IC fitted. I'm out in Malaysia, so it's hot & humid all year round, with 30+ deg temps, which was the main reason i decided to get a better IC.

It's my day to day car, so was considering a valved exhaust system, however they are expensive, inc shipping over here, so decided to just to decat downpipes & keep the exhaust stock & spend the money upgrading the turbos & getting the wagner ic instead.

Last dyno, she was running 741whp (which equates to probably just under 900bhp), but this was running only on RON97 & on a fairly mild map at the time (1.15bar boost). I'm running RON100 petrol now & waiting for covid restrictions to ease so that i can do a final dyno run on the RON100 petrol with a higher boost. Should hopefully see around 800whp, however as per above, due to the hot conditions out here, getting good dyno numbers is pretty difficult, as there is just no cool air around the dyno whatsoever, which is a bit annoying. With uk temps, i'm guessing dyno work at mrc etc can be done with ambient temps of 10-15deg depending on the time of year, so that would help with keeping the intake temps down during the dyno session, but yeh...out here...the heat is a nightmare for the dyno work.

Anyway, hope that helps abit.

Cheers
Roy

Hi Roy, it sure does.

Now that I have the car I also noticed it has the fans on the intrcoolers. I'm wondering if it makes any sense to keep them if fitting the wagner IC

VaudiGR wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 13, 2021 6:46 am

Hi Roy, it sure does.

Now that I have the car I also noticed it has the fans on the intercoolers. I'm wondering if it makes any sense to keep them if fitting the wagner IC

It's a trade off really.

If you keep them you prevent heat soak when the car isn't moving (dyno, drag strip, traffic in cities etc) but you lose a little cooling performance when you drive as the fan motor is quite big and blocks the airflow to a section of the middle of the IC.

If you remove them (like I did) you get slightly better cooling when you drive but really bad heat soak when you're not moving which takes 20-30 secs of driving to remove. As I don't do drag and I don't drive fast in cities/towns I was willing to take the heat soak issue to get a bit better cooling when driving.

Very good advice. Thanks Ian

I suspect that if the fans do indeed fit on the wagners then you may get an intermediate result, ie probably best for those that don't use the car for frequent drag racing but spirited driving

Carsten Wagner verified that the fans can still be used with their intercoolers if you want.

Years ago I instrumented the charge cooler and other things on my tuned car to monitor what was going on under the bonnet. One of things that stood out was how important heat soak was. If you're simply driving fast, accelerating and braking a lot, but giving everything a little time to cool, temperatures usually vary wildly but do cool down quickly.

However, if you drive (gently) until the engine has warmed up, then stop for a while, the charge coolers get heavily heat soaked, worse than fast driving. They take a long time to cool down, even with an upgraded cooler.

Maybe if you're after the best dyno run or quarter mile possible it's best to remove the fans, but I think for normal use the fans would be valuable. Remember that although the fans do obstruct the coolers, most of the restriction is probably in the coolers themselves.

Nick

I agree with that, especially when it comes to warmer climates