Is The RS6 Good Value?

[welwynnick]

I currently have a Merc S600, and engine aside, the best thing is the active suspension. Its soft and comfortable, but to all intents and purposes corners with no roll and no understeer. It's the real McCoy, and DRC is not. In a perfect world I would have that car with 4wd, but that doesn't exist, so I made up my mind that I was going to buy a C6 RS6.

It's a plunge into the unknown, so I sat down and asked myself what I really wanted. I concluded it was all the fours: 4 seconds, 4 seats, 4 doors, 4wd, 4 valve, 4 cam, 4 litre, twin turbo V8. Lots of cars do that now, but they're all expensive. Every RS6 fits the bill though, and the C6 throws in a couple of extra pistons for good measure.

However £20k is quite a lot for a 12 year old car, so I did a sanity check. Is there anything else that could fit the brief? The Porsche Panamera and Cayenne Turbos would do, and they add active suspension to the mix. But they're too expensive, right? Wrong.

They're both contemporaries of the RS6, and even more expensive when new and optioned, but now they fetch about the same. I looked at asking prices, selling prices, and price guides. Parkers seems to get it wrong, and undervalues the RS6, but otherwise they're all about the same when you compare like for like.

So where does that leave the RS6, value wise? I always thought of the Porsches as being a tier above in all respects. The Panamera is even a bit more economical (not saying much) and all have a pretty good rep for reliability, build, bodywork etc. Several Audi owners have been down that route and been happy.

So why is the RS6 worth so much? Is it as good? Is it money well spent? Is that the wrong question? Can the RS6 do something the Porsche doesn't?

I think I know what the answer is, but I'll hold onto that for a moment, and see what everyone else thinks.

Nick

[SR71]

I personally don't think anyone buys a C6 because they're "good value".

They buy one because they like Audis, no one else has ever made a V10 twin turbo Estate, and with a simple tune it does 200mph in a standing mile...which is almost as fast as a £250K Pista.

And even if you think you got a "good deal" on the purchase, maintaining a 700+hp 12 year old V10 is always going to be tough on the wallet.

You either want one, or you don't.

My $0.02.

[Jim Haseltine]

I made the excellently timed move of retiring the Friday before lock down. Since then the restrictions on life have dropped my average weekly motoring to about 4 miles - which isn't RS territory. The hit on the world's financial markets means that after 5 months I've only just started to draw my pension. The RS is still here, still taxed and still insured.
Good value?
No.
But as above, 5 litre twin turbo V10.
And I'm not planning to get rid of it for a long time.

[welwynnick]

So it's all about the engine, then?

Is it because of the power, or the power potential, or because it's a V10?

[KWheeler]

For me, it's the uniqueness of the engine configuration(V10) and the combination of the forced induction giving it a 1 of 1 (the only v10 petrol turbo engine produced by a manufacturer for road car use). It is also extremely likely this engine will stay as a 1 of 1.

Production numbers also help retain market values, coupled with reducing numbers of well kept cars (I'd seen that moving from a B7 RS4).

As per the pistonheads article from earlier this week, it is a watermark in Germany's performance arms race and it will forever go down as "the one with the V10 TT".

[Jim Haseltine]

Not withstanding what I wrote last night, it's not just the engine. Even standing still the car has a subtle but definite threat to it's presence with the flare to the arches. Not exactly a thug in a tuxedo - more Sean Connery's James Bond than a night club bouncer.

[cammmy]

Firstly, happy retirement Jim.

Secondly, it's about the total package, which the engine is a part of. Easy to get wicked power, pretty comfortable, nice place to be, can fit loads of stuff in it, AWD etc etc. You will find various things that do better in certain aspects and if those aspects are weighted more heavily for you, that's your answer however; In my opinion, there's no other comparable total package in the same price range. I also highly doubt you can get 730bhp and 1000nm from a Panamera for a few £k.

[IanH755]

For me it was the combination of a estate "family sized" car with enough power as standard to get my juices flowing with the ease of hitting 700+hp for a relatively small cost after purchase, which meant AWD was virtually essential at that power level vs a RWD car (Merc/BMW).

When I put those restrictions into my "lets buy a car" focused brain, the RS6 was the only car to fit the bill, rather than wanting a RS6 for any other reason.

At their current price of £20-25k I think they represent good value for those that want a specific set of "boxes" ticking like I did and, compared to it's direct competition, I think it still holds up extremely well.

[House89]

For me it was the combination of a estate "family sized" car with enough power as standard to get my juices flowing with the ease of hitting 700+hp for a relatively small cost after purchase, which meant AWD was virtually essential at that power level vs a RWD car (Merc/BMW).

When I put those restrictions into my "lets buy a car" focused brain, the RS6 was the only car to fit the bill, rather than wanting a RS6 for any other reason.

At their current price of £20-25k I think they represent good value for those that want a specific set of "boxes" ticking like I did and, compared to it's direct competition, I think it still holds up extremely well.

Exactly my reasons for buying one!!

I think everyone needs to remember that for £20-25k you can get super car power that can carry the wife and 3 kids plus all the crap that entails.

As a lot of them are getting on for 10 years old they are starting to need money spent on them.

[Fatneck73]

Is there a way to see how many remain taxed/on the roads...espesh in the uk....seem very rare

[welwynnick]

Yes, search for Audi RS6 on howmanyleft.co.uk.
It can be difficult to distinguish between different models.
It appears to show there are 232 RS6 on the road and 41 SORN. However, there are also 276 RS6 Quattro Auto on the road.

As KW suggested, I think this is the real answer to my original question. They're rare. Other fast cars like the M5, E63, R8, Panamera, Gallardo, Continental GT etc were much more popular and may have less resilient residuals.

HPI valuations are more reliable than most, and they also show depreciation trends. The C6 RS6 seems to have bottomed out relatively early in its career, and will probably hold on to its value well, while the others will continue to depreciate. I think this is the reason why the RS6 is good value - total cost of ownership.

I also highly doubt you can get 730bhp and 1000nm from a Panamera for a few £k.

That's true, you can only get about 600bhp from remapping a regular Panamera Turbo, but I don't think it's at a disadvantage. The Porsche has more torque and a 7 speed double clutch gearbox. Its quicker with 493bhp than the RS6 is with 572, so I think 600 will do the trick. Plus THT sell compressor and turbine upgrades for similar amounts to the RS6 upgrades.

I have two other reasons for buying an RS6 which I'll share later, but you'll have to be very patient.

Nick

[welwynnick]

The V10 is an odd configuration. Audi's reasoning was that its lighter and more compact than a V12, but the reciprocating parts are smaller and lighter than a V8, so it can rev higher. By adding two pistons to A8's new FSI V8 they got their more powerful engine. But could Audi have done it differently?

I don't think the C6 needed a better engine - it needed a better gearbox, and it got it. The RS6 runs low boost - the S6 BMEP is only 20% lower. So they could have just increased the boost and attributed the gains to the new high tech engine. As they did with the C7. That didn't get the V10, but it sold thousands.

So, hypothetically, what if the C6 had been a 4.2 TFSI instead? Where would we be now? I expect it would have similar performance, but be cheaper, lighter and more economical, and the handling would be less nose-heavy. The engine would have even firing intervals and proper balance like other V8's. The S6 and S8 could have had the RS4 FSI V8, or more likely a lower boost version of the 4.2 TFSI.

In this imaginary scenario I expect the RS6 would have sold rather better than it did, so the increased numbers would undermine any thoughts of quasi-classic status. There would be no marketing advantage from the association with the Lamborghini V10, and the tuning potential certainly wouldn't be as great.

We'd certainly be in a different place now. It might have been a rational route for Audi to take, but VAG was on an ego-trip at the time, moving confidently up market with technically extravagant V10 and W12 engines and various halo models, only to back- track with the next generation.

So I think the V10TT was a strategic dead end, but a unique set of circumstances have left us the C6 RS6. And cars that are probably worth more now than they would have otherwise.

Nick

[KWheeler]

Really interesting read Nick, I'm currently sitting at Southend Audi having my car MOT'd (not expecting to find anything eye widening!). The world has certainly changed a lot in the 16 or so years the V8 FSI and V10 FSI were developed and added to the B7 RS4, R8 and S6/S8/Gallardo respectively and with 2020 hindsight it could be viewed as a waste of time (I know you're not suggesting this!). I've certainly had comments around my old B7 and current C6 around the necessity for such an engine (typically from non car people) but even so called petrol heads suggesting it is too much.

A 4.2TFSI certainly would have been something and for Audi, the 4.2 capacity fits really well with brand association at the time but I'm so glad they went on an ego trip and built an engine that only saw a single use and wasn't diluted down to the S6 like we've seen with the C7.

I think the majority of owners are buying into the whole package the C6 RS6 represents (not just the engine) but it is the V10 and low build numbers (or certainly UK registrations) whereby it is almost mythical. The C7 is a better package but it isn't the C6 and I'm sure C5 owners feel the same.

On a side note, with howmanyleft a little confusing, is there any reliable info on C6 registrations here? This is the only info I have from howmanyleft that could be correct? (total on the below for 2008-2011 is circa 700)

https://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/vehicle/audi_rs_6#!newreg

https://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/vehicle/a ... to#!newreg

[WooshNI]

Its the fact that it will never be done again the V10 estate car.....all idiots in GTR's Subarus etc all noise attracting attention and then old man in his estate car leaves them.....................just buy it.

[dannyuk]

Its the fact that it will never be done again the V10 estate car.....all idiots in GTR's Subarus etc all noise attracting attention and then old man in his estate car leaves them.....................just buy it.

The V10 is special - I say do it before your forced to drive a coal powered estate.