Lifeguard 8 Trans Fluid

[cammmy]

Hi All, what I thought would be a simple service has bitten me.

I managed to track down what I thought was the correct service kit from ZF but it's not. I've got the car in the air and the trans pan off, only to now realise the gasket and filter are different and it's come with lifeguard 8. I'm happy to reuse the filter and gasket and just service it again sooner than I would have (I'm just servicing it as the car is new to me and I don't trust this sealed for life line from Audi). But I'm guessing that lifeguard 8 is incompatible with our boxes?

Otherwise, will this be okay?

https://www.gsfcarparts.com/980aa1811

Edit: well, I know what happened. Searching the ZF catalogue by specific car gives you the wrong service kit:

https://aftermarket.zf.com/go/en/afterm ... ,1709,4921

I'm really struggling to find the filter and gasket anywhere. Does anyone know where these can be had? Searching 6hp28 seems to bring up a lot of results that don't look correct.

Ta
Cam

[don0301]

Why not just order it from audi?

[welwynnick]

It's interesting that ZF themselves say the RS6 C6 transmission is the 6HP28A61. There's contradictory information around, but I'm pretty sure it's the 6HP26A61, similar to the Bentley Continental GT. There are other more recent A6 diesel models that use the 6HP28, which is the second generation 6-speeder, but that's a rather different gearbox altogether.

VAG SSP 385 describes all the 6-speed boxes used by Audi, and has loads of information, except which oils to use. The RS6 box is called the 09E; Audi designation AL600-6Q, ZF designation 6HP26A61. There are lots of differences between gearbox versions, but the filter and gasket are usually the same, so I would search for 6HP26 parts.

ATF is often a bit of a minefield. I BELIEVE the right oil is ZF Lifeguard 6, but I would make further checks. I'm pretty sure Lifeguard 8 is the wrong oil.

ZF TE-ML 11 List of Lubricants states that Lifeguard 6 is used on all 6HP Gen 1 and some 6HP Gen 2, and Lifeguard 8 is used on some 6HP Gen 2 and all 8HP (and the 6-speed on the A8 W12).

https://aftermarket.zf.com/remotemedia/ ... -11-en.pdf

Ian H did a useful summary of gearbox maintenance procedures here:

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j& ... Ji4GJ0IOxn

Nick

[cammmy]

Why not just order it from audi?

Cost. The threads I've seen on here give extortionate amounts for what Audi charge. I'll call them about the filter and gasket but I'm expecting they'll also be super expensive and I like to Shop around to make sure I'm not being ripped off.

[cammmy]

It's interesting that ZF themselves say the RS6 C6 transmission is the 6HP28A61. There's contradictory information around, but I'm...

Thanks Nick, I've been following that guide so far.

It's definitely a 6HP28 as there's a ZF ID plate on the bottom of it. The issue is that ZF say the 6HP28A61 takes lifeguard 6 and the 6HP28AF takes lifeguard 8. I hate using fluid colour to choose fluids but I've seen people saying that lifeguard 8 is green and 6 is gold? The stuff that came out of mine looked like a used diff/MTF oil. No hint of green, so between that and the ZF doc, I'm inclined to think I need 6. The good news is that while the fluid looked used, it wasn't black and there's no burnt smell. Also no chunks in the pan or filter.

I will look at the 6HP26 parts to see if they look similar but worst case, I will re-use the gasket and filter. My brother is a mechanical engineer and used to work at an auto-trans Shop; he said to give it a clean out with white spirit and it should be fine. The gasket I can see the rubber is proud of the metal when viewed in profile, so I think it will still seal.

Using the ZF part number for the filter also brings this up:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/264672255227

It does look very similar but I'll see what Audi are charging before I take a punt.

I've reserved 10L of febi lifeguard 6 for about £80 from GSF as they're 60% off at the moment.

Thanks again

[don0301]

Why not just order it from audi?

Cost. The threads I've seen on here give extortionate amounts for what Audi charge. I'll call them about the filter and gasket but I'm expecting they'll also be super expensive and I like to Shop around to make sure I'm not being ripped off.

I meant the gasket and filter, not the oil. From memory there are "service kits" available, the info must be available somewhere here.

I had mine done when I bought the car. It was noticeably better after being serviced.

[welwynnick]

It's interesting that ZF themselves say the RS6 C6 transmission is the 6HP28A61. There's contradictory information around, but I'm...

It's definitely a 6HP28 as there's a ZF ID plate on the bottom of it. The issue is that ZF say the 6HP28A61 takes lifeguard 6 and the 6HP28AF takes lifeguard 8.

You're blowing my mind. All Audi documentation says the RS6 uses the 6HP26, but now you and ZF and ATinOf and a few German tuners say it's the 6HP28. I'd love to think it was the 6HP28 because it's the newer and better gearbox. Maybe there was a mid-life upgrade. What year is your car?

Cheers, Nick

[IanH755]

It's definitely a 6HP28 box, here's the plate on the bottom of my KZQ coded gearbox fitted to my late 2008 RS6.



For more info about it's history, this is taken from the Study Notes with some extra info added from me to clear up any confusion from the study note which aren't that clear about 6HP26 vs 6HP28 -

Automatic gearbox 09E

The second generation six-speed automatic gearbox 09E, of which the earlier generation 6HP26 is already known from the Audi A8 W12, is used on the Audi RS6. However the gearbox has been modified so the following special features are worth mentioning in addition to the adjustments that have been made with regard to torque and engine speed:

• Gearbox oil cooling for transfer case and front axle cooling (common oil supply)

• Thermostat-controlled gearbox oil cooling with electric recirculation pump 2, V403

• Self-locking centre differential (40/60)

• Mechatronics with shorter operating times

The hydraulic control system (mechatronics and gearbox hardware) have been adopted from the 0B6 gearbox (Audi A4 2008).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[welwynnick]

Thanks for the picture, that's definitely a 6HP28. The main parts list number of 1068 090 003 is also the 6HP28A61. The 6HP26A61 is 1068 030 … instead, according to the ZF 6 Speed Family Tree. Maybe ZF consider it to be a 6HP28 because it has the faster working mechatronic module, though in other respects it does look like the 6HP26. Perhaps it's some sort of hybrid.

As to what parts and oil you should use, it looks a bit more muddled. Definitely ZF Lifeguard 6 or equivalent, but for the filter and seal, I suspect you should use 6HP26 parts.

If you're going to drop the pan, it's a good idea to replace the double square seals between the valve body and the transmission. It's about the 6HP's only Achilles Heel.

Nick

[cammmy]

I meant the gasket and filter, not the oil. From memory there are "service kits" available, the info must be available somewhere here.

I had mine done when I bought the car. It was noticeably better after being serviced.

Yeah, I'll give them a call on Tuesday. I was originally hoping to get it done this weekend but I've given up on that.

Indeed, I bought what I thought was a ZF service kit for this trans but it was wrong. Opie oils sells one they say will fit but it's over £500. If I can track all the parts down for less, I do that as that's a hefty wedge of change for a service.

[cammmy]

Nick, i definitely think it's lifeguard 6 as only the AF box took 8, which I think we're confident is not what's in the RS.

Is this the seal you mean?

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre ... 1020218650

I think you are correct that this is some kind of special box only used in the RS6 as finding the parts/info on it has been a lot harder than I was expecting

[welwynnick]

That's the one. It comes in two different heights, so you need to figure out which one you need. I don't think it's difficult. That's all I can remember.

Nick

[cammmy]

Okay cool, thanks. I'll do some digging.

[welwynnick]

I believe there are two different parts, one for 6HP19 & 6HP21, and one for 6HP26, 6HP28 & 6HP32.

Definitely get ZF OEM seals, I think it's P/N ZF 0501219952. Chinesium rubber is never good enough, and dropping the pan is always messy, you don't want to do it twice.

Nick

[cammmy]

Nice one, much appreciated. I'll ask Audi about the filter, gasket and seal tomorrow.

How do we feel about re-using bolts? The old ones came out fine and there's absolutely no way they were stretch bolts, they're barely torqued in all.