Turbos - options.

5.0 V10 50v biturbo - 571 bhp
zex
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Re: Turbos - options.

Post by zex » Sun May 26, 2019 10:37 am

How did that happen? How did you fry ECU?

S4Player
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Re: Turbos - options.

Post by S4Player » Sun May 26, 2019 10:01 pm

zex wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 10:37 am
How did that happen? How did you fry ECU?

Just in a little oil, 2-3 minutes either side is plenty
1*** hp TTE C6 rs6 saloon and the ultimate WB B5

Jim Haseltine
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Re: Turbos - options.

Post by Jim Haseltine » Mon May 27, 2019 10:45 am

Rather than just throw a lot of money at Audi, I decided that I'd take a look and see what's going on - mainly for my own satisfaction. OK, I might end up throwing money at somebody in the end, but at least I'll know why... So working on and off over the last month or so I got the turbos off the car and I've started to strip them. It wasn't until I was part way through the second turbo that I decided to take pics again so you've been spared seeing the most horrific sights.
Some of the pics I've posted previously:
Engine came out this far:
Image
This much oil drained from the RH manifold when I removed it from the engine
Image
And inside it was rather oily
Image
Then I didn't start the David Bailey stuff again until I'd pulled the RH turbo to bits and cleaned most of it.
RH turbine heat shield after 2 days in solvent:
Image
to contrast, here it is with the LH shield
Image

The LH turbo is nothing like as bad as the RH was - at least I can still see the rear bearing
Image but even so, the carbon there was between 2-3mm thick.
At the front there was a build up of tar (it's too thick to call it 'oil') on the back of the compressor wheel which there wasn't on the RH
Image

c3nturi0n
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Re: Turbos - options.

Post by c3nturi0n » Mon May 27, 2019 10:54 pm

one hell of a job Jim - well done.

Curious if you are planning to do any work with manifold or components underneath (oil cooler seals that tend to leaks over time due to amount of heat that builds in that area etc).
2008 RS6 Avant (Monza Silver)
- Stage II MRC tune with gearbox (720PS/850Nm)
- MIJ Powerflow exhaust (non-res)
- H&R ARBs

Jim Haseltine
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Re: Turbos - options.

Post by Jim Haseltine » Tue May 28, 2019 8:38 am

Most of the plan has been to fix what I find. One thing I've done - and it badly needed doing - was to replace the oil pump shaft seals. Contrasting the old & new '60p' seals (I'll check the invoice later and see what it cost me) was eye-opening as the item I removed appeared to be a hard plastic ring with a square cross-section whilst the new part was a flexible rubber (or something) circular section O ring. Even with the LH turbo off the car and the air-con compressor 'floating' with it's mounting bolts removed, refitting the oil pump is an awkward job. The gearbox cooler pipes were in a bit of a state so they've been blasted & coated.

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Re: Turbos - options.

Post by Golfather » Wed May 29, 2019 2:02 am

S4Player wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 10:30 am
Turns out I had a fried ecu, engine will be back in next week with the new TTE1000 still in place. Fingers crossed we aren’t far away now
Ive got a spare set of ECUs if u need them.

S4Player
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Re: Turbos - options.

Post by S4Player » Sat Jun 01, 2019 9:58 am

Golfather wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 2:02 am
S4Player wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 10:30 am
Turns out I had a fried ecu, engine will be back in next week with the new TTE1000 still in place. Fingers crossed we aren’t far away now
Ive got a spare set of ECUs if u need them.

Hello mate, I got some. Engine will be back in next week, will keep you posted on the results
1*** hp TTE C6 rs6 saloon and the ultimate WB B5

Jim Haseltine
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Re: Turbos - options.

Post by Jim Haseltine » Sat Jun 01, 2019 8:25 pm

One of the other things I needed to deal with was the intercoolers as back last year I did a temporary fix on one with some epoxy. So took a look today - not just one hole anymore, it was like a sieve with at least 10 pinholes. OK, in for a penny etc etc, fire up the tig on the lowest setting, should be able to wipe some ally over the holes. Annddd... no. It's so thin in places that it's like foil. So that's a LH cooler needed. Fingers crossed that the RH isn't holed when I check it tomorrow.

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Re: Turbos - options.

Post by Jim Haseltine » Sun Jun 02, 2019 9:49 pm

Unsurprisingly, the turbo seals are well worn. A rear seal compared with a new one, old seal on the left, new one on the right.
Image

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Re: Turbos - options.

Post by welwynnick » Sun Jun 02, 2019 10:57 pm

They're called the piston rings. They stop the exhaust pressure blowing by into the bearing chamber and the crankcase.

Oil sealing is achieved with a thrower ring.

Did you get the compressor off OK?

Do you have a rebuild kit with bearings, nuts, bolts, washers and seals?

Oven cleaner is good for cleaning the turbine.

Nick

Jim Haseltine
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Re: Turbos - options.

Post by Jim Haseltine » Mon Jun 03, 2019 9:47 am

Melett kit 1450-055-753. There are cheaper kits available from the Far East but I wasn't impressed with their quality and some don't include the spring washer that retains the rear bearing.

The main problem so far was separating the turbos from the manifolds. Normally this is just a case of removing the clamp then giving either the manifold or the turbo a couple of light taps with a plastic hammer but mine wouldn't shift. I went through multiple cycles of heating, cooling and soaking with penetrating fluid before eventually resorting to using bearing separator wedges. When they did separate the amount of rust on the mounting faces explained that problem.
Then I made a mistake or more correctly, a series of mistakes. I started stripping the RH turbo (the most badly coked one) first - compressor off, turbine and shaft out, front plate off, all no problem. Then I was faced with the thrust bearing which is fixed with 3 very small (T10) Torx screws that are tight. Really tight. So tight that unless you use a brand new, good quality T10 driver you'll strip the heads out - which I did. Oh, and don't try to use a security Torx bit as it'll break. Anyway, long story shortened, while struggling to remove the rear bearing (some brute force was required) I managed to damage the rear end of the bearing housing - either that or it was already damaged. Its not major damage, just some deep scratches but I'm not happy about reusing it.
So, on to the other turbo to find that one of the turbine blades is bent. The bent part has the same levels of deposits on it as the other blades so it looks like it was bent years ago, possibly when the turbo was assembled in the first place. Using this time a new T10 driver I stripped the rest of the unit without incident.
This left me with a bearing housing and a turbine that I didn't want to reuse unless I really had to.
As luck would have it, I then got a lead on a used turbo with a damaged back plate so snapped the seller's hand off. This one came out of the manifold easily - removed the clip, gave the turbo a thump with the heel of my hand and rather unexpectedly it moved a bit. A dose of penetrating oil was enough to free it up so I could pull it out.
I've now got enough good bits and pieces to build 2 turbos - or will have when a second rebuild kit arrives.

zex
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Re: Turbos - options.

Post by zex » Thu Jul 04, 2019 9:37 am

Toady1 wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 4:55 pm
So....nobody has any experience with using TTH opposed to TTE then???
I found this:
https://www.facebook.com/17183085750589 ... =3&theater

It looks like the gearbox needs to be upgraded to achieve this torque/power.
TTH1050 turbos
RS-Engineers
1056 hp / 1431 Nm

These turbos are around 3500 EUR (rebuilt)

welwynnick
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Re: Turbos - options.

Post by welwynnick » Thu Jul 04, 2019 11:37 am

I flagged up the TTH 1050 turbos as an alternative to the TTE 1000 in this thread in March.

Nobody in the UK seems to use TTH, but RS Engineers / THT Performance have installed and tuned TTH 1050 in several cars, and they generally do get 1050 bhp and 1050 lb-ft torque, which is very impressive. That only seems to be possible with water/meth injection and their gearbox upgrades. I dropped them an enquiry on Facebook but didn't get a response. THT have a web-site in preparation, but it's not there just yet.

Sounds like a very interesting company. Maybe they use 6R80 transmission parts. Maybe they use 6Hp28 or even 6HP32 parts, I don't know. There are lots of American and Australian drag racers that put 1000 bhp through them.

Nick
Last edited by welwynnick on Sat Jul 13, 2019 1:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

zex
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Re: Turbos - options.

Post by zex » Thu Jul 04, 2019 12:15 pm

There must be some kind of problem with TTE1000+ since there are no results yet and they were saying (on another forum) that there are few cars that will be tuned shortly - this was in March.
On the other hand I got the impression that TTH/ RS ENgineers are not very good in advertising their stuff (also communication doesn't look like their stronger side). Everything is in German and their web site was very poor (when I was checking it few month ago). Also there is not much information for modifications on tuned cars.
Last edited by zex on Fri Jul 05, 2019 6:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

FUBAR
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Re: Turbos - options.

Post by FUBAR » Thu Jul 04, 2019 11:54 pm

welwynnick wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 11:37 am
I flagged up the TTH 1050 turbos as an alternative to the TTE 1000 in this thread in March.

Nobody in the UK seems to use TTH, but RS Engineers / THT Performance (same company) have installed and tuned TTH 1050 in several cars, and they generally do get 1050 bhp and 1050 lb-ft torque, which is very impressive. That only seems to be possible with water/meth injection and their gearbox upgrades. I dropped them an enquiry on Facebook but didn't get a response. THT have a web-site in preparation, but it's not there just yet.

Sounds like a very interesting company. Maybe they use 6R80 transmission parts. Maybe they use 6Hp28 or even 6HP32 parts, I don't know. There are lots of American and Australian drag racers that put 1000 bhp through them.

Nick
RS Engineers use billet input shafts from Australia to reinforce the transmissions. Proven at 1400 Nm+
08 RS6 by Reperformance, MRC MAP. 977 PS - 1320 Nm.

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