dyno lies....

4.2 V8 32v Naturally Aspirated - 414 bhp
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ArthurPE
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dyno lies....

Post by ArthurPE » Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:00 pm

anybody who tells you they can 'predict/guess/conjure up' crank power is not being truthful or is misinformed/uninformed...

the only number that matters is wheel...
that's what we use in the States, because even dyno mfgs will tell you anything else is bogus...

only 1 dyno I know of actually measures losses, a MAHA
and the RS4 runs I've seen run 310-320 wheel with 100-110 in losses
that's 410+ HP

anybody who tells you an RS4 makes 370 at the crank is either misleading you for unknown reasons, or does not know of what they speak, ie, misinformed...or both...

the fact that a car with a >50% lb/HP deficiet, is as fast as the other car, defies all logic that it makes 370 crank, or 270 wheel minus losses

that would make the actual delivered wheel lb/HP ratio's:
M3 3550/378 ~ 9.4 lb/HP
RS4 3980/270 ~ 14.7
a 56% difference, the M3 should be 25% faster
yet, Ring, 7:58 vs 8:05
1/4 mile even, sometimes RS4, sometimes M3...
definitely not 25%, ie, RS4 13, M3 9.75, lol

actual dyno, RS4, exhaust & K&N, no HP gain, no tune, 20k miles, never cleaned
wheel 320
losses 104 (actually measured, not guessed or derived via divine intervention)
crank 424 (rated is 414)
Image
this is what a dyno sheet should look like, all data is present, all amb conditions noted, no mystery
note, only run to 7300, there were a few more ponies available

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AntoRS4
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RE: dyno lies....

Post by AntoRS4 » Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:16 pm


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RE: dyno lies....

Post by HYFR » Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:20 pm

arthur, based on this my car is all good!

One question, how do other cars (rs6) make stock power on the same dyno?

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ArthurPE
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Re: RE: dyno lies....

Post by ArthurPE » Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:25 pm

they want to sell you an exhaust
if they showed full HP, how could the muffler gain any?
we know a cat back won't get you any ponies...

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Re: RE: dyno lies....

Post by ArthurPE » Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:26 pm

aka_dk wrote:arthur, based on this my car is all good!

One question, how do other cars (rs6) make stock power on the same dyno?
manipulation and correction factors...

I can make a dyno read what ever I choose

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RE: Re: RE: dyno lies....

Post by ArthurPE » Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:29 pm

is there a reason why dyno operators refuse to give out the raw wheel data?
at least the raw torque curve...

but they seem to only give you 1 number, peak, corrected, crank HP
and they won't give you the correction factor?
why?
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe...Albert Einstein

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ArthurPE
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RE: Re: RE: dyno lies....

Post by ArthurPE » Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:34 pm

here's the problem...these cars as actually measured lose ~105 HP or 25%...
the 370 numbers are calculated using 16-18% or less... (they at one time posted a bunch of curves on this forum from a previous dyno day, after harping, they posted both wheel and crank, and I calculated the cf)
if we asume 17% the midpoint, this gives us a wheel HP of 307 HP
if we add the KNOWN losses of 105 (25%) back in, we get 307 + 105 ~ 410+...well I'll be darned

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Post by silverRS4 » Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:37 pm

Thanks Art. This dyno was done when the car was fairly new (4000? miles) and as you pointed out, had not been cleaned. In late 2009 or early 2010, the car was back on the same dyno and made 35 less WHP. Then it was cleaned.

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Post by ArthurPE » Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:38 pm

silverRS4 wrote:Thanks Art. This dyno was done when the car was fairly new (4000? miles) and as you pointed out, had not been cleaned. In late 2009 or early 2010, the car was back on the same dyno and made 35 less WHP. Then it was cleaned.
full deposits are back with 2000 miles, no real difference after that
iirc this car had close to 20k miles

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Re: RE: dyno lies....

Post by Sims » Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:45 pm

ArthurPE wrote:
aka_dk wrote:arthur, based on this my car is all good!

One question, how do other cars (rs6) make stock power on the same dyno?
manipulation and correction factors...

I can make a dyno read what ever I choose
World wide conspiracy against the B7 RS4?

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RE: Re: RE: dyno lies....

Post by Cornishmoocher » Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:48 pm

So how come my Rs6 has made +- 5 hp on 4 totally independant dyno's, why would they or what would they gain from doing so?
Of course dyno figures are manipulatable, but what is the value of that for an indie?
Every dyno operator I have used has ASKED me what figures we want to record, open book policy.

not everyone who goes to a RR actually has the the knowledge to interogate it in the way you do, but that does not all mean they are crooks.

Funny tho. the one run i did do that was a tad eyebrow raising was on a maha. operated by an american, who insisted that my Rs6 made 560hp. I laffed.
It's all Bollox.
Half of what you read is bull and the other half is all <beep>.

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RE: Re: RE: dyno lies....

Post by HYFR » Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:49 pm

LOL

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ArthurPE
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Post by ArthurPE » Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:51 pm

looking at V8 S4's, they make close to rated ~340 1000 rpm lower and with less compression

factor in rpm 12.5/11 x 7800/7000 x 340 ~ 430 HP, probably loose a bit of vol eff at higher rpms, so within tolerance...
it would be impossible for an engine that revs higher and has more Cr, to make only 9% more power
T = V x Cr x Vol eff/4Pi and P = T x w (rpm)
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe...Albert Einstein

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ArthurPE
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Re: RE: dyno lies....

Post by ArthurPE » Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:52 pm

Sims wrote:
ArthurPE wrote:
aka_dk wrote:arthur, based on this my car is all good!

One question, how do other cars (rs6) make stock power on the same dyno?
manipulation and correction factors...

I can make a dyno read what ever I choose
World wide conspiracy against the B7 RS4?
apparently not, see above dyno
perhaps only those that want to sell you something

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ArthurPE
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Re: RE: Re: RE: dyno lies....

Post by ArthurPE » Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:53 pm

Cornishmoocher wrote:So how come my Rs6 has made +- 5 hp on 4 totally independant dyno's, why would they or what would they gain from doing so?
Of course dyno figures are manipulatable, but what is the value of that for an indie?
Every dyno operator I have used has ASKED me what figures we want to record, open book policy.

not everyone who goes to a RR actually has the the knowledge to interogate it in the way you do, but that does not all mean they are crooks.

Funny tho. the one run i did do that was a tad eyebrow raising was on a maha. operated by an american, who insisted that my Rs6 made 560hp. I laffed.
an American operated your dyno in the UK?
isn't that convenient for your arguement, now that's LOL

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