B7 saloon dynoed - 308 hp at the wheels, 320 lb ft torque

4.2 V8 32v Naturally Aspirated - 414 bhp
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alex_123_fra
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B7 saloon dynoed - 308 hp at the wheels, 320 lb ft torque

Post by alex_123_fra » Tue Nov 27, 2007 5:31 pm

Hi everyone,

As promised, my dyno results below. My car is a March '06 completely STANDARD saloon with 21,800 miles. Service due in 3200 miles (last one at 15,500 miles). Runs were on optimax and 3rd gear to begin with and finally a couple in 4th gear but it seems it had got too hot by that stage with evidence of the ECU retarding the timing at the top end.

Thank you to Charlie at surrey rolling road who was very helpful and honest about the entire thing. He said mine was the first B7 RS4 he had done with more than 20k miles and so far also the first with figures reasonably close to manufacturer stated figures.

Just to clarify, the flywheel bhp figures are calculated using a 22% transmission loss. If you were to use a higher percentage as has often been mentioned for audi RS cars (anywhere between 24-30%), the flywheel bhp figures would look even more impressive. However, I'd mainly like to focus on the at-the-wheels figures as there won't be the issue of guessing the transmission losses.

1st graph - HP vs torque at the wheels

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2nd graph - HP vs torque at the flywheel

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3rd graph - AFR

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4th graph - 3rd vs 4th gear comparison (red line = 4th gear, blue line = 3rd gear). By the time we got to do the 4th gear run, the car had become quite hot and it is likely the ECU retarded timing above 6,700 rpm where power drops off quite quickly (compared with the 3rd gear run which shows peak power pretty much bang on at 7,800 rpm). 4th gear WHP figure was 290.3 on this less than optimal run.
One other interesting thing to note was that below 5,500 rpm, there is quite a bit more torque/power in 4th gear. I wonder whether this is consistent with what had been discussed previously. I.e. that thethrottle opens 100% in gears 4-6 throughout the rpm range, as opposed to only 60% throttle opening below 5,500 rpm in gears 1-3.

Image
Current: C7 RS6 - Black, VW Passat CC R36 - Black, Freelander 2 - Black
Sold: 911 C4S (991) - Black, Panamera Turbo ('11) - Carrera White, Nissan GT-R - DMG, B8 S4 - Phantom Black, B7 RS4 - Daytona grey saloon, Noble M400, Golf R32, Evo VIII MR, M3, Cooper S, Civic Type-R, BMW 120D (black), Mazda 6 MPS

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RE: B7 saloon dynoed - 308 hp at the wheels, 320 lb ft torqu

Post by sonny » Tue Nov 27, 2007 6:38 pm

This is the same age and mileage of my RS4, are you happy with these results? I would be happy to at least see it over the 400 mark!
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Re: RE: B7 saloon dynoed - 308 hp at the wheels, 320 lb ft t

Post by alex_123_fra » Tue Nov 27, 2007 7:32 pm

SJ-RS4 wrote:This is the same age and mileage of my RS4, are you happy with these results? I would be happy to at least see it over the 400 mark!
Hi SJ, I am fairly happy with it as I know that there are huge difficulties in calculating flywheel bhp figures from wheel horse power figures in 4WD cars. Noone can quite agree on the transmission losses of these cars (especially B7 RS4s). I wouldn't get too hung up on flywheel bhp figures. I would look at the wheel horse power and use that to compare to other people's results provided they were done on a similar dyno. As far as I'm concerned, anything close to or above 300 bhp AT THE WHEELS, is fine.

Had we used the 24% transmission loss today (instead of 22%), the headline figure on my graph would have been 405 bhp at the flywheel (or even higher had we used the max 30% which others use). I'm sure that after my service in 3k miles when the oil, air filter and spark plugs are changed, it will perform marginally better still.

The point is, it feels like a 400+ bhp car and its timed performance suggests this as well (as I have posted about previously). I don't really get hung up on dyno figures, but my main reason for doing this was the talk recently that RS4s are under-powered etc etc. I wanted to make sure my butt dyno wasn't way out ...and from what I saw today, it isn't.

These results have shown to me that my own car certainly isn't underpowered. I also really doubt that the majority of RS4s are underpowered, but I'm happy to add my results to all others collated on this site.
Current: C7 RS6 - Black, VW Passat CC R36 - Black, Freelander 2 - Black
Sold: 911 C4S (991) - Black, Panamera Turbo ('11) - Carrera White, Nissan GT-R - DMG, B8 S4 - Phantom Black, B7 RS4 - Daytona grey saloon, Noble M400, Golf R32, Evo VIII MR, M3, Cooper S, Civic Type-R, BMW 120D (black), Mazda 6 MPS

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Post by P_G » Tue Nov 27, 2007 8:13 pm

Funny, becasue isn't the torque figure up on quoted for the RS4? I thought it was 315 ft. lbs?

I'll post my results up once I have got them from WRC Technologies next week.

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Post by alex_123_fra » Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:10 pm

P_G wrote:Funny, becasue isn't the torque figure up on quoted for the RS4? I thought it was 315 ft. lbs?

I'll post my results up once I have got them from WRC Technologies next week.
Hi P_G,

Quoted torque for the RS4 is 430 Nm or 317 lb ft. My figure is approximate on looking at the side of the graph as I don't have a printout of the gradations of the torque scale. It looks to be about 320 lb ft, in other words around the audi quoted figure.

Look forward to seeing your results. In order to achieve comparable data, could you ask Chris to use mode shoot_44 (+ any others he might recommend), as this seems a fairly standardised mode for the RS4.
Current: C7 RS6 - Black, VW Passat CC R36 - Black, Freelander 2 - Black
Sold: 911 C4S (991) - Black, Panamera Turbo ('11) - Carrera White, Nissan GT-R - DMG, B8 S4 - Phantom Black, B7 RS4 - Daytona grey saloon, Noble M400, Golf R32, Evo VIII MR, M3, Cooper S, Civic Type-R, BMW 120D (black), Mazda 6 MPS

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Post by sonny » Tue Nov 27, 2007 10:34 pm

ok I see, It would be intresting to get mine done as we both have march 2006 B7s with 20K+ on the clock!

by the way did you do the run with the sports button on?
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Post by alex_123_fra » Tue Nov 27, 2007 10:44 pm

SJ-RS4 wrote:ok I see, It would be intresting to get mine done as we both have march 2006 B7s with 20K+ on the clock!

by the way did you do the run with the sports button on?
It would indeed! Would be useful to get some figures up for the higher milleage cars.

The runs were done in sport mode with the ESP and TC off. There was a comparative run with the S-mode off and it made practically no difference...1 bhp if I remember correctly. My car does have the exhaust valve flaps disconnected so the are open all the time though.
Last edited by alex_123_fra on Tue Nov 27, 2007 10:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Current: C7 RS6 - Black, VW Passat CC R36 - Black, Freelander 2 - Black
Sold: 911 C4S (991) - Black, Panamera Turbo ('11) - Carrera White, Nissan GT-R - DMG, B8 S4 - Phantom Black, B7 RS4 - Daytona grey saloon, Noble M400, Golf R32, Evo VIII MR, M3, Cooper S, Civic Type-R, BMW 120D (black), Mazda 6 MPS

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Post by t_urbo » Tue Nov 27, 2007 10:46 pm

Alex, you got some good figures there in 3rd gear.

Shame you did not have VAG-COM connected to log the timing retardation in the 4th gear run as i imagine it was pulling the timing a bit
like you say which could have caused the slightly lower figure rather than a slightly higher figure.

Your graph clearly shows the difference between 3rd and 4th where the throttle opens to 100% just after the 5k mark in 3rd but is already open in 4th.

Where exactly is Surrey RR?

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Post by sonny » Tue Nov 27, 2007 10:52 pm

alex_123_fra wrote:
SJ-RS4 wrote:ok I see, It would be intresting to get mine done as we both have march 2006 B7s with 20K+ on the clock!

by the way did you do the run with the sports button on?
It would indeed! Would be useful to get some figures up for the higher milleage cars.

The runs were done in sport mode with the ESP and TC off. There was a comparative run with the S-mode off and it made practically no difference...1 bhp if I remember correctly. My car does have the exhaust valve flaps disconnected so the are open all the time though.
yea as soon as I get time I will get it on the rollors, where did you go in Surrey, as im only in Kent, btw why did you disconnect the exhaust valve flaps?

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Post by alex_123_fra » Tue Nov 27, 2007 10:56 pm

t_urbo wrote:Alex, you got some good figures there in 3rd gear.

Shame you did not have VAG-COM connected to log the timing retardation in the 4th gear run as i imagine it was pulling the timing a bit
like you say which could have caused the slightly lower figure rather than a slightly higher figure.

Your graph clearly shows the difference between 3rd and 4th where the throttle opens to 100% just after the 5k mark in 3rd but is already open in 4th.

Where exactly is Surrey RR?
Yeah it was a shame...I had the laptop and cable in the boot but I didn't think to plug it in and log the info. Next time I will. I did check the car before the runs at home and found no error codes (engine modules).

Next time, I will do the runs in 4th gear first. I was really interested to see the difference in power and torque below 5.5k rpm between 3rd and 4th gear. I think it was you who first noted it at JDE in Belgium if I remember correctly. It shows that there is potential to make the car a lot more responsive in gears 1-3 by eliminating this partial throttle opening effect. Quite why audi put this throttle opening restriction in 1st to 3rd under 5,500 rpm I don't know.

The RR is near Sunningdale (near Bracknell). It is only about 25 miles from me (London) so very handy. Pm me if anyone wishes more details.
Current: C7 RS6 - Black, VW Passat CC R36 - Black, Freelander 2 - Black
Sold: 911 C4S (991) - Black, Panamera Turbo ('11) - Carrera White, Nissan GT-R - DMG, B8 S4 - Phantom Black, B7 RS4 - Daytona grey saloon, Noble M400, Golf R32, Evo VIII MR, M3, Cooper S, Civic Type-R, BMW 120D (black), Mazda 6 MPS

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Post by pippyrips » Tue Nov 27, 2007 10:58 pm

SJ-RS4 wrote:
alex_123_fra wrote:
SJ-RS4 wrote: btw why did you disconnect the exhaust valve flaps?
It unleashes more of the V8 sound and arguably improves performance.

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Post by alex_123_fra » Tue Nov 27, 2007 11:05 pm

SJ-RS4 wrote: btw why did you disconnect the exhaust valve flaps?
pippyrips wrote:It unleashes more of the V8 sound and arguably improves performance.
As pippyrips says, I mainly did it to get more sound prior to the flap opening (they still shut at low rpms even in sport mode). I think the only other difference I've noticed compared to when the flaps were connected, is that the "dip" and "rush" at 5,500 rpm is less pronounced...slightly more progressive.

I think in both modes (S and non-S) and with the flaps connected or not, the car's peak power/torque should be the same. It is just the way it gets there will be slightly different.
Current: C7 RS6 - Black, VW Passat CC R36 - Black, Freelander 2 - Black
Sold: 911 C4S (991) - Black, Panamera Turbo ('11) - Carrera White, Nissan GT-R - DMG, B8 S4 - Phantom Black, B7 RS4 - Daytona grey saloon, Noble M400, Golf R32, Evo VIII MR, M3, Cooper S, Civic Type-R, BMW 120D (black), Mazda 6 MPS

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Post by sonny » Tue Nov 27, 2007 11:16 pm

ahh ok, I like the fact the my car has a loud and descreet mode, i.e. when your parking your car in the garage at 3am lol, it does not atract to many stares!

Thanx for the PM mate, I will check them out sometime
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Post by S4INT » Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:38 am

Hi Alex,

Your car gave almost exactly the same power as mine when it was standard:

Same shoot-out mode etc.

Still yet to see a standard one give the full 414 though....
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Post by ARSEY4 » Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:12 am

I dont really understand this rr stuff but I pressume that you are saying that the car looses aprox 22% through the wheels therefor in order to get to a quoted BHP of 414 the car should make 323 at the wheels.
At 25% loss ist should be 311
At 30% loss it should be 290
The bit Im not sure about is that presumably when you do a 4 wheel drive car how does the machine know what the different splits are ie; RS4 is 60:40 split and rear bias.
Are our cars variable in this split ala haldex system or are they fixed at 60:40?
There must be so many variables in the calcs.

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