New M3 v RS4

[hunty]

Strange to compare the cabrio with the coupe, full comparision in next months Car mag, hopefully with the saloon.

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/first_driv ... 849&page=1

[mrdeli]

it's a real shame that the new m3 is not getting great reviews :@)

[W8PMC]

I'm thinking the same. head to head in this weeks Auto Express, which i think is RS4 Saloon vs M3 Coupe.

Does appear the new M3 has grown up & got a tad lardy, as the press are saying this version must have a CSL variant to be a success.

Will still be a great car but the reports state it's not as raw as the current standard M3 & although a tad quicker it's only real advantage is that it's more refined, which having owned one of the New M5's for nearly a year, smacks of BMW M losing the plot slightly.

[mrdeli]

i'm sure it will pip the RS4 in the magazines next week, however as they have had 18 months to create an RS4 thrasher, it looks like they have failed somewhat. It makes owing the RS4 that bit sweeter knowing that the M3 isn't going to be on a different level

[Wacko]

it's a real shame that the new m3 is not getting great reviews :@)

Not so sure about that: TopGear seemed to love it:

http://www.topgear.com/blogs/drives/079-bmw-m3/

There will be criticism of the new BMW M3, but let's just get one thing out of the way right now so that we can all concentrate on the good stuff: this is one of the cars of 2007.

Why? Well, if you've got time, there's a technical list long enough to make you break a considerable sweat just to get your head around some of it. But, for the moment, let's just say that the new M3 feels like the people who made it, created it for themselves. And they like to drive. Not helm, or pilot, or control. Not words that seem to indicate a lack of involvement; drive. And that makes it bloody good fun.

Fun. Slightly scary fun, for sure, but the new M3 manages to be a mixture of the M5 (technically impressive but slightly aloof in its warp-speediness) and the M Coupe (which has been criticised for the exuberant way it handles corners). This is a good thing.

Now we have a mid-sized saloon that is aggressive enough to really put a smile on yer face. If the M5 is too digital and the M Coupe a touch too analogue (and therefore a bit tiring) for some, then the M3 is right slap bang in the middle. A perfect marketing delivery from BMW, if nothing else.

But it really is hard to keep my cynical face on when the M3 does what it does so beautifully. Prejudice against BMW? Fair enough. But if you get out of this car without at least one thing that blows your mind, you have no mind to blow.

Getting on for 420 horses from a 90-degree V8 that revs to 8,400rpm. Six-speed manual, adjustable suspension (boingy to slam-solid at the touch of a button), adjustable throttle mapping, diff, traction control - you name it, you've got it.

It looks fab with that huge bonnet bulge and vents, the flared arches, the subtle but aggressive styling - imagine it in black. That carbon roof is actually carbon-fibre reinforced plastic, but still cool even when you know that.

One thing's for sure, you won't be able to de-badge a 335i, stick some wing mirrors and wheels on and have a faux-M3 - everything but the doors, bonnet lid and glass is different. And you really see it. The 335i Coupe made me think it was a little too cool for school; the M3 is just about right. It looks fast without being all wings and slots.

The engine is the powerplant of the year, no question. And it's an engine that Ferrari would be proud to have made. A loud, razor-sharp unit that seems to rev for ever... and ever... and ever. Individual throttle butterflies that give the kind of response you usually only get in a racing car, coupled with that rev-range, mated to that noise which changes every incremental revolution - it's not a lump of metal, it's an event.

0-62 in under five, limited to 155mph - the numbers are impressive but not startling. The way it drives is the startling bit. It's a driver's car, but one that's easy to drive slowly.

If you're useless, you can drive an M3 fast; if you're brilliant, you'll be able to wring the M3 out and still be impressed. That is a very hard dichotomous trick to pull off, and its one of the few cars that does it successfully.

It will be too hard with the EDC (electronic damper control) set to 'Sport' on British roads, but you can tune each element to your taste. Personally, I seem to get on better with everything at max setting (steering, power, response etc), but the suspension on one of the less firm settings. A bit of body roll helps me communicate with the car. Basically, I can go a bit slower, and feel like I'm really nailing it.

But it does go fast. Very fast. Steering is ultra-precise, the turn-in sharp but not extreme. Grip seemed a bit lacking on certain bits of these dusty Spanish roads we've been testing on, but I was laughing so hard that I didn't really care. Brakes felt great, but we found that BMW had stuck race pads in preparation for a hammering, so I'm going to suspend judgement.

It's not perfect, though. I'm not overly keen on the manual gearbox (SMG comes later, according to the BMW brass) - it could be faster and less wobbly, which is a shame. I think a car with this much performance can justifiably have a more aggressive-feeling gearbox, but the legions of WAGs that buy them might disagree.

The interior is a bit boring, and the fuel consumption is bloody awful (on the mountain roads I managed less than 15mpg - but the engine is just so addictive). It also costs £51,000, which puts a whole lot of other dream-machinery in sight.

It is brilliant, though. And that, for once, is not too strong a word. Roll on the TG Awards, I'm voting BMW.

[andy_ran]

And the first reply to the review on TG site

I am fortunate enough to have driven an M3 because I work for BMW. I personally don't like it and feel that it will never come close to Audi's RS4.

The Audi is a masterpiece and is the best-handling saloon around, while the M3 is just a little bit too much of the techno geek's car. Undeniably it's amazing to drive, but I don't like it.

I can honestly say the Audi RS4 is worth £4,000 more because in the twisty bits, it's four grand more car and the interior is second to none. It easily outclasses the M3.

[marin]

They are both great cars guys! It just matters what you like to drive and if u like manual, or DCT, or saloon, or coupe, RWD or AWD etc. I personally love the current M3 and was looking at RS4 but i love my paddles too much and cant be asked with a manual for London. Both amazing cars. We should be happy and lucky that we can own such masterpieces

[RussianM3_dude]

And the first reply to the review on TG site

I am fortunate enough to have driven an M3 because I work for BMW. I personally don't like it and feel that it will never come close to Audi's RS4.

The Audi is a masterpiece and is the best-handling saloon around, while the M3 is just a little bit too much of the techno geek's car. Undeniably it's amazing to drive, but I don't like it.

I can honestly say the Audi RS4 is worth £4,000 more because in the twisty bits, it's four grand more car and the interior is second to none. It easily outclasses the M3.

You mean the old one? EVO did a comparo M3/RS4/C55 and the M3 still won, not bad for a 7 year old car. Also I seriously doubt it's the best handling saloon around, not with the lardy weight and rubbish weight distribution. EVO/STI would school it back to first grade. In the twisty bits is where I found the RS4 to be a bit ordinary, well compared to true sports cars. Audi has polished a turd (A4) to a mirror shine, but that's as far as it could possibly go.

[Wacko]

And the first reply to the review on TG site

I am fortunate enough to have driven an M3 because I work for BMW. I personally don't like it and feel that it will never come close to Audi's RS4.

The Audi is a masterpiece and is the best-handling saloon around, while the M3 is just a little bit too much of the techno geek's car. Undeniably it's amazing to drive, but I don't like it.

I can honestly say the Audi RS4 is worth £4,000 more because in the twisty bits, it's four grand more car and the interior is second to none. It easily outclasses the M3.

I think you'll find (with a cursory search) that this 'employee' is a fake! I thought it was pretty bleedin' obvious!

[hbk]

The New M3, It’s when the road changes on the other side of the mountain that things aren’t quite so impressive. The road is tighter now, with more corners that are less predictable in their curvature and often blind. It exposes the new cars biggest flaw - the steering, something that was never the strong point of the previous car either.

A great car for Drifting, but not driving......

[djcevo]

[b]Audi has polished a turd (A4) to a mirror shine, but that's as far as it could possibly go.[/quote][/b]

A touch of Jealousy I feel, go back to driving your old M3 little man (which are good cars by the way) and stop trying to wind people up having an adult conversation!!! lol[/b]

[RussianM3_dude]

[b]Audi has polished a turd (A4) to a mirror shine, but that's as far as it could possibly go.[/quote][/b]

A touch of Jealousy I feel, go back to driving your old M3 little man (which are good cars by the way) and stop trying to wind people up having an adult conversation!!! lol[/b]

I drive a B7 RS4 right now.

[tartan_rob]

Lets not be silly here, this is an Audi site and we are naturally biased but most of us are aware that there are better cars out there. But lets look at the facts: 4wd is the way to go, Look at Porsche and Lambo for that. The M3 is approx 210bhp per wheel...the RS4 is about 105bhp per wheel and double the number to put the power down. In the real world in the dry the RS4 will be as quick as the M3 and IMO much better finished and much more practical. In the wet.........well best not to go there. Any 'normal' driver (as opposed to Michael Schumacher) will not be able to drive the M3 anywhere near its ability, but they will be able to think they are near the limit in the RS4 with the extra security. The M3 is full of new fangled technology, energy recovery in braking being a neat one. But I'm sure Audi will take much of this on board when it becomes reliable and makes a genuine difference. Audi have Quattro, which has by and large remained unchanged for the last 40 years....
The new M3 V8 is a variant on the the F1 V10 engine and built in the same factory, are you honestly saying that Ferrari either do not have or could not pull an engine off the shelf...?

Its horses for courses. For me, even if offered a new M3 at £25k - I'll stick with the Audi thanks. The Audi IMO is the thinking mans car. The BMW is and will always be the pimps ride and of course in later years, the chav's motor.

[Dippy]

I'm not biased, although since I have never driven an M3 I can't comment. However I think the main point is that again BMW have targetted their M3 at a very specific customer segment which is still not the same as the Audi customer segment, although of course there will be some overlap. That segment is the performance coupe driver who will not take a 4 or 5 door car a second look. This time I think that BMW might have made an error. They have not produced an M3 which is clearly better than the competition, other than being a bit cheaper and yes there is the promise of the CSL. So a potential M3 buyer will not get the expected kudos of having a king of the road. Whereas IMO Audi have a bigger TAM, especially since they also have the S series.

[PaulF]

Its horses for courses. For me, even if offered a new M3 at £25k - I'll stick with the Audi thanks. The Audi IMO is the thinking mans car. The BMW is and will always be the pimps ride and of course in later years, the chav's motor.

That's a bit harsh but I'm afraid very true IMO.