Retro-fitting ceramic brakes

[Mikeyboy]

I must say i love the brakes on the RS4. Simply storming but they don't half fade if you brake hard a number of times. lost almost all pedal travel a couple of weekends ago.

Does anyone know if Audi or any of the aftermarket guys will retrofit the ceramics and what other than the discs and calipers needs to be changed to accomodate the upgrade?

[webbah]

I checked into this prior to ordering my car and they told me it would be about 14,000 CHF (Swiss francs) to retrofit. I decided to just order the car with them as it was a 9,500 CHF option to do it at the factory. After having PCCB's on my Porsche I couldn't imagine not having the ceramics. However, there has been much debate on this forum and others about this. I'll have my car in a few days and will know soon if it was a waste of money or not. I drive hard so I doubt I'll be disappointed once I get into the mountain drives with lots of braking!

Good luck,

Webbah

[Mikeyboy]

14,000chf
Ok maybe not!
thanks Webbah

[john1975]

I went round oulton park at the end of January with my avant which has the ceramics, there wasnt any fade at all even after doing 20-25 laps non stop in the afternoon. Brakes where superb!! Cant say that for the clucth though the car spent a couple of days in garage having a new one fitted!!!!!

[GlynRS2]

Other than the colour that they are painted are the callipers actually any different?
If not it would be just a case of changing the discs and pads.
Having said that the discs are listed as £3,905.81 each at the stealers and £322.15, so that would be at least £8.5K for new discs and pads fitted
If you have ceramic brakes fitted you may want to know that in respect to when you might want to sell the car.

Having said that, I have heard, although I am not sure if it is true, that these brake discs are essentially the same as those fitted to 997's & Gallardos with the ceramic brake option. I therefore wonder if they may well be cheaper sourced elsewhere, e.g a Porsche parts specialist??

[baza]

Glyn the ceramics are six pots (maybe the same as porsches) instead of the eights as standard

[GlynRS2]

Oh well that is just another £706.18 for each calliper aswell then. Making it up to a £10k upgrade.
Makes the factory fit option look like something of a bargain!

[Mikeyboy]

The brakes are made by the same third party supplier as Porsche so have the same contsruct (for better or worse)but different specs i believe. eg I think the diameter is larger on the RS4.
Either way retrofitting these things looks too expensive to be worth it.

[Teutonic_Tamer]

I think the diameter is larger on the RS4.

You are correct, the Ceramics can only be used with the 19" rims, rather than the 18" or 19" for the standard steel discs.

Rgds

[Andyuk911]

sound like a call to Par Motorsport is in order .. go on Mike, splash the cash

[Mikeyboy]

Par Motorsport? Is that the Supplier?
I'm having a good year Andy but not 5k on a set of FRONT ONLY brake discs good!

[alex_123_fra]

Not sure ceramic brakes would add a great deal to a well sorted normal disc/pad arrangement....especially not for the money you'll be paying. Don't know about the RS4 standard brake hoses, but if they are braided and you use a quality/high boiling point brake fluid such as castrol srf, you shouldn't get significant fade. The pad material may also be to blame...again don't know enough about the standard RS4 pads to comment on that.

[Nige_RS4]

You can fit the RS6 pads instead of the std B7 RS4 pads, as they are a slightly harder compound.

[Teutonic_Tamer]

Not sure ceramic brakes would add a great deal to a well sorted normal disc/pad arrangement....especially not for the money you'll be paying.

But if you use your standard brakes hard enough to induce brake fade, then the ceramics would be a worthy option!

Don't know about the RS4 standard brake hoses, but if they are braided

Braided hoses only affect the "feel" of the brake pedal, rather than improving brake performance. The braiding merely prevents the "balooning" effect that can occur on rubber flexy hoses, under very high pedal pressure.

and you use a quality/high boiling point brake fluid such as castrol srf, you shouldn't get significant fade.

High quality brake fluid won't prevent brake fade. The higher boiling point will reduce the likelyhood of vapour lock, though, but standard DOT 4 has a pretty high boiling point, and provided the standard fluid is changed, ideally every year, at most 2 yearly, it is unlikely to suffer with vapour lock.

The pad material may also be to blame...again don't know enough about the standard RS4 pads to comment on that.

The specification of the pad material is the major contributoring factor to cause brake fade. It is a problem that plagues my current B6 S4, which is why I specced the Ceramics on the RS4.

[alex_123_fra]

But if you use your standard brakes hard enough to induce brake fade, then the ceramics would be a worthy option!

You would really need to use the brakes abnormally hard to induce fade in ordinary track day use or even amateur racing if you have a decent pad/disc/hose/fluid setup. This is also assuming you do include some cool-down laps. It would be an indication of lack of driving skill/knowledge of the track. I've never once managed to induce brake fade in any of the setups I've tracked previously... an Evo VIII, M3, civic type-R and mini...and believe me, I tracked them hard!

Braided hoses only affect the "feel" of the brake pedal, rather than improving brake performance. The braiding merely prevents the "balooning" effect that can occur on rubber flexy hoses, under very high pedal pressure.

...they do affect braking performance because they allow for more precise braking "feel" and less pedal travel to induce the same braking force repeatedly, compared to a balooning rubber/flexible hose. Hence they provide less variability in braking force and pedal travel from the beginning to the end of a track/race session. You need to remember, braking performance is not simply thought of as a one-dimensional measure...i.e. how fast or in how short a distance can I stop. The feel/precision and travel of the pedal are equally as important.

High quality brake fluid won't prevent brake fade. The higher boiling point will reduce the likelyhood of vapour lock, though, but standard DOT 4 has a pretty high boiling point, and provided the standard fluid is changed, ideally every year, at most 2 yearly, it is unlikely to suffer with vapour lock.

I agree it won't prevent fade, but it will darn well make a huge difference to your braking performance and the consistency of this performance. There is huge variability in the 'wet' boiling points of DOT 4, DOT 5 and DOT 5.1. Dry boiling points do not give you any idea of longevity of the fluid or the likelyhood of vapour lock. That is a function of wet boiling points and using a high wet boiling point fluid will result in less water absorption, less vapour lock and hence more consistent braking performance for longer with less likelyhood of a "mushy" pedal feel. Castrol SRF has pretty much the highest wet boiling point of any brake fluid by quite a long way...although you do pay for it.

The specification of the pad material is the major contributoring factor to cause brake fade. It is a problem that plagues my current B6 S4, which is why I specced the Ceramics on the RS4.

I agree...I'm still not sure what pad material comes as standard on the RS4