RS4 B5 vs RS4 B7

[FrankC]

There has been a fair bit of criticism directed at the new RS4 regarding looks,lack of turbos,no cap on production run etc etc.
I am not exactly excited by what i have seen and read so far.

However what is starting to interest me with the new car is the dynamics of the B7 RS4,on paper both cars seem to have around the same performance times to 60 and 125mph.

What with better brakes a new 4WD system and DRC,might these be the factors that put daylight between it and the B5?

Therefore.....lets say both cars were to be driven round the Nurburgring by the same driver in the same conditions....the circuit being long enough to give an overall picture of the contest.
What time can the B5 get round in and do we have any info regarding the time the new B7 does it in??
Cheers fc

[Jani]

8.25 was the time for stock RS4. Sport package dropped it about 10 seconds. I think new one should go below old one with sport pack if it is any good, since in a straight line any chipped B5 will leave it wondering

[TarmacTerrorist]

I have come to the conclusion that the times around the ring are not the best source of infomation for comparison test.

Why?

Quite simply its far to long in distance, with too many fast sections and flat out starights, this ultimately allows the bigger, fatter, faster cars to catch the lighter more nimble cars back up and give similar times.

eg. rs4 v m3

Both have similar times around the ring but stick them onto a shorter race circiut and I know for fact that the bmw will walk all over the audi on a dry day.

Also times will be taken on different days in different conditiions. Aask anyone who holds a standing lap record on a race track and they will tell you that it is only repeatable when the conditions are just right -
time of year, time of day, rubber on the track, position of moon etc...

[lengster1]

I would hope that its dynamics are improved over the b5 because there is no gain in performance,and getting any more out of it will not be easy or cheap being normally aspirated.im not sure ring times are that important as its the other 364 days a year you need a good alround package,i would think the b7 will be fun on the track with it having the revvy engine,but having to do the same on your daily running around might become tiresome,what is the sport package the gmbh susp?

[Jani]

So big fatty cars should have the clock ticking slower, not to humiliate small nimble ones, is that what TarmacT is saying? I think the Ring times are an excellent test, it can be achieved in different ways. Just as on the road there are different types, some cars like twisties, some straights, and the very special ones both.

Do agree about conditions too, they might make 10 seconds easily, I do not know how they standardize the times, or whether they don't. Hockenheim times are also a pointer, the conditions don't vary as much. See comparison of B6 S4 and RS4 to get some idea. Just 1 second in Hockenheim, so the new one will be faster on the track http://www.track-challenge.com/comparis ... 67&Car2=10

Stage 3 RS4's dropped under 1.15 in Hocke, about 1 second off M3 CSL.

[johneroberts]

Both have similar times around the ring but stick them onto a shorter race circiut and I know for fact that the bmw will walk all over the audi on a dry day.

I concour

Stage 3 RS4's dropped under 1.15 in Hocke, about 1 second off M3 CSL.

Wet or damp or dry?

Cheers
jr

[DavidT]

Tyres are a big factor too. The CSL has 'R' tyres which are worth a number of seconds per lap.

[lengster1]

The only walking over m3s are doing at the moment is by the owners to the shops (according to owners on bm3w) seeing as half of em cant get em off the drive in this weather,thats one hell of a price to pay to have a 1 second edge once or twice a year,i will happily give them a second on the track as compensation for having a useless car in the winter

[Jani]

Wet or damp or dry?

Dry naturally in both cases. 1.14.6 with Rosso Corsas for MTM458 RS4, 1.13.5 for M3 CSL, with Michelin Cups.

[TarmacTerrorist]

Wet or damp or dry?

Dry naturally in both cases. 1.14.6 with Rosso Corsas for MTM458 RS4, 1.13.5 for M3 CSL, with Michelin Cups.

I would expect to see a similar time difference between standard rs4 and standard m3.

[Jani]

Less than that actually, same source quotes 0.5 secs in favour of M3. These are from a German magazine "sport auto" -their tests include a lap of the Ring and Hockenheim. http://www.track-challenge.com/main_e.a ... %26Car2=10

[TarmacTerrorist]

I think the Ring times are an excellent test, it can be achieved in different ways. Just as on the road there are different types, some cars like twisties, some straights, and the very special ones both.

This is just my point...you have two cars (any cars) with nearly identical times over a 20km course, one of them likes the twisties and the other likes the straights, if you didn't know the cars in question you would tend to think they both perform the same when they clearly don't. A shorter circiut would highlight the limitations of each vechile much more clearly.

[Jani]

I don't think the length of a track will change anything, except it will highlight brake fade, cooling etc issues. The nature of it might change the outcome, for sure, fast vs slow corners.

If you really are only interested in some particular side of performance, then only cornering speed or acceleration, or deceleration is relevant. Normally a lap time does show an aggregate all of them. I like the sport auto tests in that you get to look at cornering speeds as well -same applies to British evo.

[TarmacTerrorist]

It's so easy to get lost in printed figures and facts these days dont you think? Perhaps the best comparison test of all is to go out and try to drive as many of the cars as you can. Ok, so one may be a couple of seconds faster around the ringhole, but which one rewards with a better sensation to the drivers sphincter while it's doing it...

[Jani]

I absolutely agree.