R32 to RS4... but B7 or B8?

Post by **JRC1** » Fri Mar 08, 2019 11:48 pm

Hello all

Firstly, I've always fancied moving to an RS4 from my MK5 R32 at some point. Seems a logical next step, from a great sounding 4WD VR6 to an even better sounding 4WD V8. Are there any owners on here that came from an R32 that are able to share their experiences? How was the step up in running costs? I average 25mpg so am already quite used to Shell being the second home... but other than the infamous cost of brakes and tyres, how much more really is the RS4 to run?

Secondly, I've always kept an eye on B7 prices and had never even considered the B8 but low mileage B7 examples seem to be creeping up to crazy money, and in some cases more expensive than mid to high'ish mileage B8's! So it got me thinking... is the B8 the better option to aim for? What are the pro's and con's of each?

Has anyone driven both and can offer some insight on the differences, in terms of performance, running costs, things that go wrong? DRC and coking issues with the B7, for example... are these a thing of the past with the B8? The R32 is pretty bulletproof, apart from obvious perishables. The engines can see 2-300k, the manual gearboxes very rarely go wrong. Are the RS4's similar? Any horror stories I should be aware of with either variant?

I have to be honest I do prefer the look of the B7 Saloon, and it disappoints me that Audi didn't do a Saloon in the B8. I also love that the B7 uses a manual box, and again, disappointed that this wasn't an option on the B8. But it's the '2007 car vs the 2014 car for similar money' conundrum that has made the B8 something to consider.

Thanks for reading and I appreciate any advice/insights.

Post by **AA_954** » Sat Mar 09, 2019 2:17 am

JRC1 wrote:Hello all

Firstly, I've always fancied moving to an RS4 from my MK5 R32 at some point. Seems a logical next step, from a great sounding 4WD VR6 to an even better sounding 4WD V8. Are there any owners on here that came from an R32 that are able to share their experiences? How was the step up in running costs? I average 25mpg so am already quite used to Shell being the second home... but other than the infamous cost of brakes and tyres, how much more really is the RS4 to run?

Secondly, I've always kept an eye on B7 prices and had never even considered the B8 but low mileage B7 examples seem to be creeping up to crazy money, and in some cases more expensive than mid to high'ish mileage B8's! So it got me thinking... is the B8 the better option to aim for? What are the pro's and con's of each?

Has anyone driven both and can offer some insight on the differences, in terms of performance, running costs, things that go wrong? DRC and coking issues with the B7, for example... are these a thing of the past with the B8? The R32 is pretty bulletproof, apart from obvious perishables. The engines can see 2-300k, the manual gearboxes very rarely go wrong. Are the RS4's similar? Any horror stories I should be aware of with either variant?

I have to be honest I do prefer the look of the B7 Saloon, and it disappoints me that Audi didn't do a Saloon in the B8. I also love that the B7 uses a manual box, and again, disappointed that this wasn't an option on the B8. But it's the '2007 car vs the 2014 car for similar money' conundrum that has made the B8 something to consider.

Thanks for reading and I appreciate any advice/insights.

Well not sure how good my advise will be as I’m in the US and we only have MK4 R32 Manual, MK5 R32 DSG and B7 RS4’s (we didn’t get any later generations)

I own both a MK5 and B7 and enjoy driving each one, they are very different specially handling and how the AWD system works, R32 are not true AWD cars, they use a Haldex system as you’re probably aware that basically is FWD bias and will send power to the rear when slipping is detected, very different with the RS4 where it has in my view less understeer and you can feel the car trully pushing as opposed to the R32’s pulling (even with a haldex tune)

I’m not sure about the B8 but maintenance in the B7 compared to the R32 is slightly more frequent and initial setup can be expensive depending on past maintenance although, once the car is in shape it will ride very nicely.

If I were somewhere where the B7 and B8 were available I would definately still go with the B7, the last RS4 to come manual so what better driver/car experience than that.

Good luck with your decision

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Post by **12th** » Sat Mar 09, 2019 9:13 am

I had an A3 3.2 Quattro before, and the running costs are not that much greater - apart from things like the brakes.

No B8 experience to share, I'm afraid.

Post by **coffey555** » Sat Mar 09, 2019 12:29 pm

B8 is quicker and newer but has crap steering feel and the wrong gearbox if you value interaction.

B7 is rated higher as a drivers car and I think the prices of low mileage cars reflect that vs the newer B8.

Regarding running costs, it all depends where in the life cycle you buy your RS4 and how well it has been looked after by it previous owners.

Purchased my one at 92,000 (4 years old) with full Audi service history and 2 previous owners. Now at 160,000 miles at almost 13 years old and I have receipts for at least £25k, so call it £3k per year? I don't think buying a lower mileage car will help in this regard as most of the issues are age related.

I would try and find one that has been cherished and not be too concerned about the mileage (unless you want to keep it locked up in a garage, in which case you should be shot). Plenty of rough RS4's out there now unfortunately.

My Mk5 R32 was lovely but the RS4 is a steep up in performance, involvement and also running costs.

I loved the R32's soundtrack, even now there is not much between that and the RS4. Both are enjoyable

Post by **marc1** » Sat Mar 09, 2019 8:00 pm

B7 all day long.

Post by **electricfurnace** » Sat Mar 09, 2019 8:45 pm

I had a MK5 R32 and then went B7 RS4 like you are.

Completely different cars - the V8 is insane.

The RS4 has much higher costs when repairs are needed which given the age they are now...

I part exed my MK5 R32 for a B7 RS4 slrint blue saloon.

In 18 months of ownership My DRC went, oil cooler broke, airbox broke...as well as new discs. Very expensive, and mine had FSH and had been well looked after.

Great car and good to own one for a bit but I got sick of the costs so bought a MK4 R32 and loved it, sold the RS4 and then bought an 8p RS3.

Be careful selling your R32 if it’s nice, they are wonderful cars and they are difficult to replace as there are alot of shitters out there.

So - be prepared for increased costs, it is wortth it to experience an RS4...but you might end up missing the R32!

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Post by **kerraddoo01** » Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:10 pm

Well it's simple really - go for the B7 once you're sure you've found a good one. B8 has lots of newer "goodies" but it just ain't the real deal. I bought a low mileage 2007 B7 Saloon 2 years ago, having had a 2006 Mk5 R32 for 10 years. I bought the RS4 but kept the R32 "just in case" I'd bought a pup. Turns out I haven't - so far, so I sold the R32 after 18 months of RS4 ownership. In many ways they are very similar cars in terms of V6 then V8, great fun to drive etc, but they are very different. It took me some time to get used to driving the RS4. In many ways the R32 was a perfect balance of power when you need it and easy to drive when you don't. Great fun and in many ways the best car I've eve had. I've always wanted an RS4 but like many couldn't afford one when they came out. I can see it's tempting to go for the B8 but it just isn't the one to have, the kudos is all in the B7 - the last normally aspirated manual V8. I regret letting the R32 go purely because I think it will become a future classic - last manual V6 Golf? Plus I'd become very attached to it! If we had a double garage I would have kept it, a bit extravagant I know. My advise would be to go for the B7 but hold onto the R32 if it's a good one - at least for a while just in case. I got more for the R32 than I was offered initially 18 months later so pretty sure you wouldn't lose out. Running costs wise - Road tax the same, Insurance the same, mpg lower in RS4. Touch wood I've had no major costs on the RS4. 1 coil replaced to solve a periodic misfire, a new tyre when I acquired a Stanley knife blade, presumably accidentally. The DRC was done well before I bought it. R32 major costs were the Haldex chip went (the expensive one) plus the usual ageing Golf issues with suspension and steering bits progressively as it got older. Routine services are obviously higher on the RS4 and clearly if it goes badly wrong we're not talking peanuts. The biggest thing I've had to get used to is the Satnav. I had an OEM Zenec fitted to the golf and that was great. However whilst the RS4 Satnav is clunky, given it's 12 years old, I've got used to it and don't want to lose the drivers display if I upgrade. Good luck making your decision.

Post by **KWheeler** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:05 pm

A great write up Kerraddoo01. I've had my mugello blue saloon for 18 months now and have recently bought a mk5 R32 manual for my partner as we now have a little one and felt confident in the R32's power, traction, practicality etc. Both cars cult cars in their own right, the golf good for zipping around town and the odd thrash, the B7 is just something very different altogether in performance, handling and feel good factor. Not using either cars for commuting, I like to pick long and enjoyable journeys in which to get the RS4 out of the garage and it feels all the more special hopping out of the R32 (a special car in itself).

In terms of running costs, the RS4 has a lot more to go wrong but it's to be expected in a super saloon with a special engine, DRC, huge brakes and the usual RS tax. With that being said, on 69k DRC has been fine so far and other than a carbon clean/deflap and frequent oil changes the engine is strong. Car has recently come back from MRC with oil cooler pipes changed, new rear pads, oil change and a few other little bits. R32 I opted to have the chain replaced as it was making a light rattle and at which point I had the clutch and flywheel replaced as a matter of course. Brakes and other consumables are significantly cheaper than the R32.

I have no experience of the B8, so from my limited view point I can only conclude the B8 brings an even keener redline and slightly more power, a more modern interior with new tech, with the drawbacks of added weight, an auto box which from a purist standpoint makes it less involving. It is not to say one is better than the other, it's preference and requirements. If I needed to put 10-12k a year mileage wise, the B8 would be a strong contender but a car to make you feel special for a weekend drive, the B7 will always be the more popular choice.

Good luck with your search, I'm glad I've had the opportunity to have a nice R32 also as they are fantastic (love the sound).

Post by **JRC1** » Tue Mar 26, 2019 7:27 pm

Thanks firstly for all of your insightful replies, especially kerraddoo01, just the type of experience I was after! I'll try and answer majority of the questions/opinions below.

B7 or B8... well after further consideration I would certainly prefer the B7. For me it's the lack of manual option and saloon in the B8 that play the key parts.
The issue with the B7, though, is that it is slowly becoming the next Clio V6 or Megane R26 R... ok, slight exaggeration, but most 'affordable' examples are close to approaching 100k and as you'll soon discover from the below I tend to keep my cars for a while, so I'd really be looking at the 50-60k mile range and these seem to be silly, almost B8, money. So it's difficult.

A lot of you have said about missing the R32... something I hadn't properly considered. I guess I assumed the RS4 would be better in every way so didn't really consider whether I would miss any elements of the Golf. It is a great example, and I have had it a long time. 5 years and 60k miles to be precise. Recaro's, Bilstein's, H&R ARB's, Supersprint exhaust and a remap to 265bhp make it more like the car it should have been from factory. Gone are the wafty characteristics, it is now completely at home on the twisties and has virtually zero body roll or understeer. How chuckable and nimble is a B7 RS4 in comparison? I've read that a lot of people change the DRC to Bilstein coilovers, but how well do they truly handle? For me enjoyment isn't going to Santa Pod and doing a quick 1/4 mile, it's being able to have a weekend blast on B roads and feel like the car is at home on them. Something the R32 now achieves.

Good to hear about the running costs not being that much more. Although KWheeler you state that brakes and other consumables are significantly cheaper than the R32... I assume this is a typo? Carbon clean seems to have mixed views... lots of people saying for any real benefit you need to be having it done really frequently, so just enjoy the car for the power it is, even if it is down on the released figures. I would always rather focus on suspension than engine anyway, as I believe you can gain so much more from having a good suspension setup compared to having a few more ponies. I guess the main things to look for are recent pads/discs and DRC change - in terms of long term unwanted costs? Chain replacement advised on the RS4 or is it good for 'life'?

In conclusion I definitely need to drive one for a start, or at least go out in one! But secondly maybe I'm not ready to move on from the R32 just yet. It ticks so many boxes and still sticks a smile on my face. Having both wouldn't be an option, so I'd really need to be well and truly done with the R32 experience before I decide that a change is definitely required. It seems like both cars aren't a bad place to invest your money at the minute! Will certainly keep an eye on the classifieds and who knows what might happen if a 50k Mugello Blue Saloon comes up for a good price...! Cheers for reading.

Post by **KWheeler** » Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:20 am

B7 is in the modern classic segment (soon to be featured in Modern Classics magazine in fact), where the B5 firmly resides, so yes good ones will hold their value and rightly or wrongly mileage plays a factor (rather than solely condition), so 50k and under will be £25k upwards. I bought my mugello blue 18 months ago with 62k, 2 owners for £20k, with the preferred options of satnav, bucket seats and flat bottom wheel (sunroof would have been nice), you will only find one b7 with less mileage for sale on pistonheads currently. What you will find are plenty of well cared for cars with higher mileages for £17-20k which in my opinion offer the best short term value because a lot of the bigger bills are likely to have been ticked off, DRC work/aftermarket replacement, potentially recent brakes, clutch, oil cooler pipes etc. Despite my car being what MRC recently said "one of the best we've had in here for a while" it is fair to say I will carry the brunt of refreshing a relatively low mileage car as things start to go wrong, hitting 69k recently, front suspension arms, oil cooler pipes and other bits and bobs were needed. With a new set of discs and pads in my garage ready to fit in the summer, buying this car is certainly costing me more money in the short term than a well kept higher mileage example, albeit as I only add 5k a year it's got a good chance of retaining value in the mid to long term.

Swings and roundabouts^^!

I'm not sure whether the B8 will hit modern classic status as it is a truely modern car, only the N/A engine marks it apart from the new RS4.

Yes typo for sure with brakes they are 5x the cost of R32 brakes, I have a newborn so currently sleep deprived and likely to make mistakes!

Unlike the R32, chains really are not an issue on these cars, it's the earlier S4 V8's plagued with issues, by the time the FSI 4.2 was put into production these issues were resolved.

Carbon Clean - the debate rages on, mine had never had it, I had it done along with a deflap as I'm not risking a tiny screw coming lose and ruining my engine along with a custom map at MRC and I'm so happy with the results and the performance in sport mode in particular. I'll have it rolling road tested when it hits the 10k mark since the clean to see what power it is putting down, a circa £1,000 expense every 2 years I feel is worth it but each to their own.

I'm yet to test the R32 properly down a country road and my one doesn't sound anywhere near as nicely setup as yours, all I would say is the RS4 with rear biased quattro (rather than the haldex fwd based setup in the R32), coupled with DRC means it handles very, very well for a 1,650kg car, having only owned a handful of performance cars (I've just turned 28), my opinion isn't worth much but Chris Harris and other journo's really rate it as the best drivers car audi has ever made. The R32 is smaller and circa 140kg lighter but the proportions aren't much different and compared to newer cars the RS4 feels small.

Things I'd miss about the R32 over the RS4 are the sound (VR6 sounds awesome, although the milltek on the RS4 sounds the nuts) and the comparably low ownership costs, will the RS4 give you 3 to 4 times the smiles the R32 gives you? That is the realistic increase in purchase price and running costs.

It sounds like you can afford it, life is too short not to own an RS4 and yes mugello is the best colour!

Post by **JamesBaby** » Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:07 am

I've come from an R32. It was stolen so then I moved to an 8V S3 which was just awful and drove like a boat in comparison. I was about to go back to an R32 when I decided to get an RS3 8v. This was in a different league to the S3 and the engine at least had some character.

The RS3 was nowhere near the R32 in driving enjoyment though. Typical of single turbo cars the pedal is mapped for economy and comfort so compared with the R32 the response was still numb to say the least. In order to address its issues I had it mapped to Stage2+ which was a disappointment as I had hoped it would have brought some more of the easy R32 driveability back but it didn't. It just made it faster when you were pressing on it to do so. The single best mod was in the end a humble Pedal Box that reduced the lag in the pedal and made the car more responsive. I had the rear ARB upgraded on it and that made a big difference to the handling and turn in. The DSG was modern and quick, but took out the driving enjoyment in most driving situations. The steering was electronic of course too and you can't feel the road.

Finally, I sold the RS3 and just last week I got an RS4 B7 Avant. Let me tell you, the moment I sat in it, it felt like coming home. Like the R32 but bigger and better. Once again, each day I can't wait to get in it again.

Post by **Rw@@dy** » Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:39 pm

Another r32 to rs4 driver here. I had a mk4 r32 that was supercharged, had 325bhp, moving to the my current b7 rs4 was a big leap forward.
I think running costs are very similar, I’ve done brakes all round on both cars, wasn’t much difference in cost. Swapped drc for coil overs on the rs, not much more than a good set of coil overs on the r32.
Yes oil coolers are poor and will fail, but I refurbished a unit fitted new pipes and it cost about £450.
Servicing only marginally more expensive because of the amount of oil. Fuel costs are the same as always used Tesco momentum in both
Insurance costs with all mods declared have been pretty much the same

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Post by **electricfurnace** » Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:28 pm

Double the cost of running, double the performance but double the smiles? Not quite. Here’s my two - I speak from experience having had a MKV before my MKIV R32.

Sold the Rs4 due to running costs due to age, bought an RS3 but still got the R32

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Post by **Mark Park** » Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:49 pm

i went from a golf R32 Mk5 to he RS4 B7 and im still blown away, i miss the dsg box and also the noise of the golf to be honest. Its a 10x better car the RS4 and im close to a year of ownership. This low millage mindset needs to go tho. My car has been serviced fully by Audi till i got it and it has done 130K its still a monster. make sure you dont just look at milage look at the last time the disks an pads where changed and also the clutch and flywheel. Clutch and flywheel is expensive, its like 2k. I got a rough interior knowing i could get all the leather re dyed and repaid for £240 and it looks like new. Also make sure the aux radiators are in good condition as they are nearly 1k fitted, i was lucky they needed doing and where i got the car from did it for me.
Fuel believe it or not is better in the Rs4 if you don't abuse it. If you have a heave foot then well its smile per gallon and its expensive. Look into the costs of the car you can get a major service kit online for £350 that's plugs and everything even wiper blades then pay to be fitted ect. Awsome car truley is but when you try to race a B8 Rs4 you will wish why you did not buy one. Test drive both cars, if you like manual buy the B7 if you a dsg fan buy the B8. Same guy i see all the time nods at me then smokes of in the B8 but i know i own something special that the B7

Post by **Skunkworks** » Sat Mar 30, 2019 8:30 pm

The B7 is the best, owned one for over ten years, drove the new versions and well they are to be honest FEKING CRAP !!!! full of electronic and totaly useless GARBAGE.

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