Coolant Loss

4.2 V8 32v Naturally Aspirated - 414 bhp
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a1topdog
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Re: Coolant Loss

Post by a1topdog » Sat Mar 10, 2018 4:33 pm

tommchowat wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 2:27 pm
Guys,

You're not gonna believe this.

Radiators all pressure tested and fine. I mentioned I saw air bubbles going through the coolant expansion tank as the coolant was leaking.

Did a test while it was running, air coming up and liquid changing colour. <beep> head gasket has gone. On a 68k mile car. Just as my warranty ran out too.

Livid.
How did you pressure test the rads?
:redrs4: 2006 Misano Red RS4 Saloon. :redrs4:

tommchowat
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Re: Coolant Loss

Post by tommchowat » Sat Mar 10, 2018 4:40 pm

Don't know, garage I was at did them and said there was nothing coming out of them.

Showed me the bubbles coming up through the expansion tank and the colour change of the liquid when I came in. Felt ill.

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MikeFish
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Re: Coolant Loss

Post by MikeFish » Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:25 pm

Not sure if they pressure tested the system as a whole or removed the rads and done them individually but if done in situ then obviously need to consider they are not used unless the car is very hot so potentially only pressure tested the main rad and not the aux rads.

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Re: Coolant Loss

Post by tommchowat » Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:28 pm

There's carbon monoxide bubbling into the coolant though, he did the hydrocarbon test in front of me, so it can't really be anything else except the head gasket...

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a1topdog
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Re: Coolant Loss

Post by a1topdog » Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:20 pm

What we are getting at is your aux rads dumping the coolant may have overheated the engine, resulting in the blown head gasket. As Mike says this wouldn't show in a pressure test with the rads in situ unless the system was hot enough to use them.
:redrs4: 2006 Misano Red RS4 Saloon. :redrs4:

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Re: Coolant Loss

Post by Jimbob71 » Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:20 pm

Hi tommo, just wrote a lengthy post but failed to appear but will write a shorter bullit points here,
Asuming nothing else can cause exhaust gases can get in to the coolant system, then head gasget failing is what it is.
I'm assuming you have not had the car long, but this could have been an issue when you were sold the car, I would take a sample of the coolant, not sure if someone can test it for additives for engine sealer etc but if proven, grounds for refund /repairs, just a thought.
All the best Jamie

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Re: Coolant Loss

Post by rs user » Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:42 pm

the hydrocarbon test can be a red herring dependant on type of coolant used-seek a 2nd opinion
bubbles into expansion tank can be the system bleeding through after being emptied a good bit
the rs4 system would be hard to properly pressure test all items due to its design
need to get it up to temperature and inspect it properly with all covers off-bumper too if struggling to source

m3 e46 is a poor design head gasket wise-there simply isnt much meat around the bores-so its almost when they go rather than if[blow between cylinders]
lots folk have the gasket failure and are completely unaware as at first it just pinks a bit under load on the m3-eventually sounding like a box of marbles

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MikeFish
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Re: Coolant Loss

Post by MikeFish » Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:08 pm

Just to go back to your first post, would a blown head gasket make steam come out of the bonnet and collapse the piss out of the bottom? Not that I know of so it suggests you still have an aux rad leak or similar issue.

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Re: Coolant Loss

Post by Jimbob71 » Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:41 pm

arthur.d wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:42 pm
the hydrocarbon test can be a red herring dependant on type of coolant used-seek a 2nd opinion
bubbles into expansion tank can be the system bleeding through after being emptied a good bit
the rs4 system would be hard to properly pressure test all items due to its design
need to get it up to temperature and inspect it properly with all covers off-bumper too if struggling to source

m3 e46 is a poor design head gasket wise-there simply isnt much meat around the bores-so its almost when they go rather than if[blow between cylinders]
lots folk have the gasket failure and are completely unaware as at first it just pinks a bit under load on the m3-eventually sounding like a box of marbles
Hi Authur, if it smells like exhaust fumes from the expansion tank (with cap removed) it has to be headgasget, the nose test?
But a compression test on each cylinder may resolve the issue, or pinpoint which bank cylinder/ cylinders that is leaking.

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Re: Coolant Loss

Post by tommchowat » Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:52 am

It's interesting to note that on Googling, there are NO other incidents of this happening with this car. I'm sort of in disbelief. When I Googled head gasket failure for the M3, the Internet was full of examples. None for the B7 RS4.

I'm putting the car into my specialist on Tuesday, they actually did the head gasket on my M3. Before I decide what I want to do with this car I want a second opinion from them. The garage that diagnosed this is, to be honest, a bit of a Mickey Mouse garage.

It would be a shame to have to get rid of the car as I love it and I've put alot into it. We'll see.

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MikeFish
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Re: Coolant Loss

Post by MikeFish » Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:54 am

I've never heard of a head gasket failure on this car either.

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Re: Coolant Loss

Post by rs user » Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:02 pm

the hydrocarbon test can be a red herring dependant on type of coolant used-seek a 2nd opinion
bubbles into expansion tank can be the system bleeding through after being emptied a good bit
the rs4 system would be hard to properly pressure test all items due to its design
need to get it up to temperature and inspect it properly with all covers off-bumper too if struggling to source


Hi Authur, if it smells like exhaust fumes from the expansion tank (with cap removed) it has to be headgasget, the nose test?
But a compression test on each cylinder may resolve the issue, or pinpoint which bank cylinder/ cylinders that is leaking.
[/quote]

the color change testers are terribly unreliable-going by my own experience with them-needs looking at properly

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Re: Coolant Loss

Post by tommchowat » Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:51 pm

arthur.d wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:02 pm
the hydrocarbon test can be a red herring dependant on type of coolant used-seek a 2nd opinion
bubbles into expansion tank can be the system bleeding through after being emptied a good bit
the rs4 system would be hard to properly pressure test all items due to its design
need to get it up to temperature and inspect it properly with all covers off-bumper too if struggling to source


Hi Authur, if it smells like exhaust fumes from the expansion tank (with cap removed) it has to be headgasget, the nose test?
But a compression test on each cylinder may resolve the issue, or pinpoint which bank cylinder/ cylinders that is leaking.
the color change testers are terribly unreliable-going by my own experience with them-needs looking at properly
[/quote]

Might be worth noting that most of what was in my coolant expansion tank at the time was actually water, as when it pissed out all my G12 I didn't have any spare, so topped it up with water. Don't know if that makes a difference.

I told him that I'd noticed an air bubble in the coolant tank - but that was while I had the car running and coolant was actively leaking out of it, so of course there'll be bubbling as it depletes. That's when he ran off to do his hydrocarbon test and told me the head gasket had gone. I had the car running today on the drive and couldn't get it to bubble or leak. Interestingly when I started it from cold (second time it's done it), steam came up from the passenger side of the engine, lasted about 5-10 secs then disappeared.

Two things irk me. First, is that I appear to be literally the only person with a B7 RS4 with a diagnosed head gasket failure. There just isn't anyone else talking about it. Could I really be that unlucky? Second, is that the car isn't displaying any other signs of failure. It sounds fine, goes fine, no pinking noises, no gunk build up at the top of the coolant bottle. There is white smoke coming out the exhaust when the car is started cold but this gradually disappears after the car warms up - upon reading I gather that's normalish behaviour.

I also stumbled upon a thread, (can't find it now), which is most interesting. A guy who was losing coolant/water, thought it was an auxiliary radiator, was told by a garage it was the head gasket, investigated further, turned out it was the auxiliary radiator and head gasket was fine. The beginning to that story is VERY similar to this one.

On Tuesday I'll have my specialist do every test on the car under the sun. Three possible outcomes;

1) Mickey Mouse garage has diagnosed bullshit and its a radiator or similar.
2) Mickey Mouse garage has diagnosed correctly, I've collected quotes and decide to fix it because I love the car
3) Mickey Mouse garage has diagnosed correctly, I can't afford/justify a fix so I flog the thing while it's still running, cry a bit, and buy an S3

We'll see. Thanks all for your inputs so far.

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Re: Coolant Loss

Post by MikeFish » Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:00 pm

Any mayonnaise under the oil filler cap?

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Re: Coolant Loss

Post by tommchowat » Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:14 pm

Not that I can see, checked the filler cap and the dipstick and the oil actually looks quite nice.

Where the oil filler cap sits seems to have been discoloured yellow... Double checked and its not oil, the red seems to have changed colour over time.

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