Putting "Engine Carbon Clean" to the Test

[Ellis]

This sounds like complete and utter nonsense to me, the height of cobblers. The minimum ignition energy of hydrogen will surely be achieved long before it has the chance to even get near any carbon deposits, to the point of pre-ignition I don't know. To alter a stubborn carbon buildup with a squirt of combustible gas is a rather bold claim IMO. So, would the carbon in my trusty HB pencil turn to methane gas in the presence of hydrogen, is that what we are saying here??

[boombastik]

Hmm subscribed to this thread as this will be interesting

[davers6]

Me too. (Coughs and shouts bollocks at the same time)

[FaisalJ]

Me too. (Coughs and shouts bollocks at the same time)

Haha.

Well that's just it. Is it bollocks? That's what I want to find out! I'm staying open-minded for now...

Got a mate in an old Jag V12 coming down for the dyno test only, £60 if anyone wants to do the same. The dyno guy hinted there's some wiggle room on that price if we pay cash, and additionally if we get a few more cars down there.


EDIT: Mate with the Jag has decided he'll give the clean a go too, as the cleaning price has been dropped to £80/car now.

[MrL]

I'm not here to convert anyone, there are people that don't and won't believe man has been to the moon yet after all.
And then there's the Supermarket fuels and V-Power / BP Ultimate debates too.

The improvements after our cleans vary car to car as it obviously depends how good / bad the car is to start with.
We make no claim it will be n% better / faster / smoother / quieter but customer feedback speaks volumes I think.

If people are convinced it's better to spend upto circa £600 on a strip and clean then who am I to argue

[Robnic]

Placebo I'd say, get a bore scope down to the back of the valves before and after I think you maybe surprised.

[maars]

Look what's round the corner from the rolling road:
https://www.team-sport.co.uk/crawley/in ... ng-events/

[MrL]

Look what's round the corner from the rolling road:
https://www.team-sport.co.uk/crawley/in ... ng-events/

Could be worth a celebratory trip

[FaisalJ]

No borescope available at the dyno facility unfortunately, and Gary the carbon cleaning guy doesn't have one either.

I'm thinking about buying a cheap usb type borescope off amazon (could be hours of fun at home too!). Could someone talk me through how I'd feed it through to see the valves without messing anything up?

[Rick_RS4]

i bought a borescope with a monitor on it for this reason, ive not tried using it as i CC every year anyway but i would say its a real PITA to get round the runners to the top of the valves

[TonyHayers]

Testing on a rolling road isn't going to prove much with the sort of potential gains at stake, compared to the 1001 factors that affect the repeatability of runs on a rolling road.

Having heard all this before, I remain very skeptical unless someone is going to show us before and after shots of the cleaned ports.

We're not talking about a light covering of soot here are we. We're talking levels of carbon and sludge that you could weigh on your kitchen scales.

Since this is being suggested as a direct alternative to paying for manifold removal and cleaning then I say bollocks. If I'm proved wrong then I'll happily consume my own bodyweight in carbon (or hydrogen or something else, I reserve the right to choose).

[RichT128]

I realize that MrL probably did not invent or build this equipment and for the sake of using the machine to clean engines he doesn't really need to know how it works. Even so there's a lot of physical/chemical problems with the given explanation.

I could imagine this machine possibly being effective to remove some carbon deposits inside the combustion chamber. However when talking about the FSI issues in particular the issue is carbon deposits on the intake ports because no fuel passes through there which would ordinarily keep them clean from these exhaust gas deposits.

If the claim is that injecting hydrogen into the intake is enough to reverse the process then the first problem is that the reaction required for this to happen isn't going to happen in this low temperature and low pressure environment. Inside the combustion chamber conditions are much more suitable for such a chemical reaction. Ionizing the hydrogen molecules before injecting them doesn't change a thing as far as I can tell, and I doubt that machine would be capable of doing that in the first place. Hydrogen is also sort of flammable to the point that it likes to go boom so I have to question how much hydrogen can be sent through an engine in the short period of time that the cleaning takes as it has to keep running normally. Passing some moist air with a slight H2 content over rock solid carbon buildup just isn't going to change stuff into CH4 or any other combustible gas.

I'm an ex-nuclear physicist (only did chemistry to a-level) and have the same questions, well explained!

Seeing Mikefish on here anecdotally supporting means I'm not going to dismiss it out of hand but as a business surely it's very clear? If you're saying it clears carbon build up, pay for a boroscope before and after. It will prove what you are doing works, and everyone will come to you.

If you''re not prepared to submit the results to inspection...

(Galileo pushed the scientific method 500 years ago.... I'm still a fan)

[MikeFish]

I've said it in the other thread and I'll say it again here. I'd be very surprised if this ended up with a sparkling clean engine and huge gains like a traditional clean will give you (ok not true gains, but back to original power), but it gave a noticeable improvment that, for me, warrants the cost and minimal effort required to have this done as an ongoing maintenance cost. To me, an annual engine strip is unreasonable and I'd rather live with the power loss. I'm sure the people who are chasing the big numbers will still be getting the old school cleans done but unless like Rick you do it every year it seems a waste of time and money to me. And like I said before, its not all about the numbers, you can imrprove the car with minimal gains much like the MRC remap does (although I'm not claiming this will give you an insane Sport mode!!).

[marc1]

Mike have you logged the MAF reading since?

[Shinobi675]

(although I'm not claiming this will give you an insane Sport mode!!).

What if we just stop all this talk of dirt and spend £80 on new buttons. With insane mode written on then!

I'm in for the group by on that! Proper bragging rights! "Oh yes it might be 740bhp but I've got.... Insane mode!"

It's boring on the train today as you can tell...