Putting "Engine Carbon Clean" to the Test

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FaisalJ
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Putting "Engine Carbon Clean" to the Test

Post by FaisalJ » Mon Nov 02, 2015 11:31 am

Hi Guys,

I recently came across a post in the "General" forum mentioning a company called "Engine Carbon Clean" that offer a 30min mobile cleaning service, with some trusted RS246 users having used the service and noticing a benefit:

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=117370

Unlike the likes of terraclean, this system passes hydrogen through the intake, rather than cleaning agents through the fuel which would do nothing for the carbon issues. As a full carbon clean for an RS4 costs from £600, this could be a big cost saving if it works, as well as the convenience of not having to leave the car at MRC Tuning or AMD. At a sixth of the price, I'll be pleased if it works even half as well as a proper MRC/AMD clean.

http://www.enginecarbonclean.com/

I decided I'm going to put this to the test on both my cars, and have organised before and after dyno tests (3 pulls before and after) from 9am this coming Saturday. The rolling road is very close to Gatwick airport.

http://www.rollingroadsussex.co.uk/

I wanted to post on here as both the rep from Engine Carbon Clean (chap called Gary) and my contact at the dyno facility (Luke) have said they have capacity for a couple more vehicles if anyone wants to join us.

I'm paying £180 for the 2x carbon cleans (normally £99 each), and the optional dyno test works out at £82.50 for each car, although prices may come down if we have more cars. I am asking Engine Carbon Clean to at least subsidise my dyno runs as this ought to be good marketing for them.

Anyone interested in joining us? Let me know and then I can look into pricing/discounts.
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RichieRS
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Re: Putting "Engine Carbon Clean" to the Test

Post by RichieRS » Mon Nov 02, 2015 11:59 am

Looking forward to seeing the outcome of this and good on you for doing it Faisal.

What's the state of play on your RS?. Has it had a CC before?.

Afaik mine has not but I have all the gear to do it now, and once my house move has happened I shall be doing it for piece of mind. Thinking it would be a good idea to hit the mass build up with the full strip down and clean and then (if your tests are positive) maintain with this style of CC on an annual basis!!.

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Re: Putting "Engine Carbon Clean" to the Test

Post by IanH755 » Mon Nov 02, 2015 5:24 pm

It might be worth asking SussexRR if they have a flexible boroscope (some garages will) so you can visually see the state of the valves before and after without having to take things apart.
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Re: Putting "Engine Carbon Clean" to the Test

Post by timsrs6 » Mon Nov 02, 2015 7:31 pm

Will be watching this.

I will certainly be giving them a call if results are good.

keep us all posted on this on.

Cheers

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esp_mm-270
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Re: Putting "Engine Carbon Clean" to the Test

Post by esp_mm-270 » Mon Nov 02, 2015 8:05 pm

Deffo boroscope first unless the vender can 100% guarantee gradual removal of heavy carbon build up. Releasing 'chunks' of carbon in to your combustion chamber, well, I don't want that happening on mine!!!!!
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andyg72
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Re: Putting "Engine Carbon Clean" to the Test

Post by andyg72 » Mon Nov 02, 2015 8:37 pm

I had mine done as documented .
the carbon is disolved and exits as vapour not chunks .

I'm glad I had it done there's a noticed difference no engine strip down no issues .

It would be good to see a before me after run on a dyno but in the real world getting in and driving off after the clean is pretty good but that's only my opinion :)

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FaisalJ
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Re: Putting "Engine Carbon Clean" to the Test

Post by FaisalJ » Mon Nov 02, 2015 9:07 pm

Good call on the boroscope gents, will check with them
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2007 RS4 B7 Avant
Phantom Black | Black Optics | MRC Stage 2 | JC Weldfab Exhaust | KW V3 coilovers | H&R ARBs | 20" Ispiri ISR-8 | Titanium wing mirrors | Driving Passion Diffuser | CF Air Intake | Manifold deflap | Alcantara/leather retrim | TT RS Steering Wheel | Pioneer Apple Carplay HU, JL amp and sub, Focal components | Clear Headlight Lenses, Black Internals, 6000K Bulbs | Trups LEDs | LED Tail lights |

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Re: Putting "Engine Carbon Clean" to the Test

Post by marc1 » Mon Nov 02, 2015 9:07 pm

At what point in the inlet to exhaust tip will it be turned to vapour though? I had the same concern really so would be good to understand it better.

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Re: Putting "Engine Carbon Clean" to the Test

Post by gilly » Mon Nov 02, 2015 9:10 pm

I'm not knocking this, but I can't see how this can compare to a full carbon clean being offered by some of the top Audi indies out there, surely if the results were comparable to what they offer this would be the route they would go, quicker turnaround, more customers etc.
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Rick_RS4
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Re: Putting "Engine Carbon Clean" to the Test

Post by Rick_RS4 » Tue Nov 03, 2015 12:05 pm

good luck to the cats and silencers that crap you remove is messy

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MrL
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Re: Putting "Engine Carbon Clean" to the Test

Post by MrL » Tue Nov 03, 2015 12:47 pm

I've cleared a CAT (on a diesel) using this system. It went from unable to rev over 3,500 without going into limp mode, to freely revving round to the red.
The blocked CAT had been diagnosed by a main dealer the customer told me, and I witnessed it going into limp mode before we started the engine clean.
Every petrol engine done has run quieter and smoother afterwards with no reported problems.

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Re: Putting "Engine Carbon Clean" to the Test

Post by marc1 » Tue Nov 03, 2015 12:57 pm

MrL can you advise how this works please?

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MrL
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Re: Putting "Engine Carbon Clean" to the Test

Post by MrL » Tue Nov 03, 2015 1:15 pm

Hi Marc, basically our machine when connected to a running engine calculates how much hydrogen is needed to clean that engine.
It takes water, splits it into hydrogen & oxygen and adds an electric charge to the hydrogen particles.
These are fed in through the air intake where they then set to work cleaning the carbon and muck away from inside the engine. When fuel like petrol & diesel burns in plenty of air the products are colourless gases, carbon dioxide and steam (water). When it doesn't burn completely it produces soot (a black carbon deposit). This happens in vehicle engines, not enough oxygen combines with the fuel and so soot is deposited in the cylinders and exhaust pipe. Audi FSi engines are particularly prone to this as the petrol is directly injected into the cylinders. Our climate is ideal for carbon build up due mostly to low temperatures and amount of moisture in the air.

A lot of diesel engines do short journeys so a combination of not getting fully warmed up or revved relatively hard for very long, means they carbon up badly affecting the engine, EGR (exhaust gas recirculation valve), turbo and DPF (diesel particulate filter). All fuels are what is classified hydro carbons, which is essentially a bond of a fuel and carbon, and when the fuel is burnt off you are left with carbon.

By adding hydrogen and oxygen we are in basic terms reversing the process. Hydrogen is then re-bonding with carbon and producing a methane like gas which is how it burns out without clogging the turbo, DPF, CAT etc.

I hope that helps. :)

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Re: Putting "Engine Carbon Clean" to the Test

Post by JCviggen » Tue Nov 03, 2015 2:52 pm

I realize that MrL probably did not invent or build this equipment and for the sake of using the machine to clean engines he doesn't really need to know how it works. Even so there's a lot of physical/chemical problems with the given explanation.

I could imagine this machine possibly being effective to remove some carbon deposits inside the combustion chamber. However when talking about the FSI issues in particular the issue is carbon deposits on the intake ports because no fuel passes through there which would ordinarily keep them clean from these exhaust gas deposits.

If the claim is that injecting hydrogen into the intake is enough to reverse the process then the first problem is that the reaction required for this to happen isn't going to happen in this low temperature and low pressure environment. Inside the combustion chamber conditions are much more suitable for such a chemical reaction. Ionizing the hydrogen molecules before injecting them doesn't change a thing as far as I can tell, and I doubt that machine would be capable of doing that in the first place. Hydrogen is also sort of flammable to the point that it likes to go boom so I have to question how much hydrogen can be sent through an engine in the short period of time that the cleaning takes as it has to keep running normally. Passing some moist air with a slight H2 content over rock solid carbon buildup just isn't going to change stuff into CH4 or any other combustible gas.
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Re: Putting "Engine Carbon Clean" to the Test

Post by toyneg » Tue Nov 03, 2015 3:08 pm

interested in the outcome of this - had mine done by MRC a while ago and this is the crap they got out of my engine:

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