munched engine...ouch! not for the faint of heart

[ArthurPE]

Out of curiousity, who believes Audi would admit liability even if they thought they were culpable?

I do

and I would believe them if they denied it

why would I assume they would lie?
if they said it was not deposits are you saying they ae lying to the customer?

[Sims]

it's you who have stated that Audi has acknowledged all engines will eventually fail due to deposits and will be replaced at no cost...kudos

I have not, and you are just getting carried away yet again.

[Sims]

2manytoys - I see what arthur is trying to do here ,to be honest I dont think it is up to him to be phoning around dealerships sticking his nose in

Arthur- I dont see your problem with cars getting engines under warranty ,the reason my engine got stripped in the first place was due to carbon build up and poor performance ,only then once the engine has been stripped the scoring was seen ,audi didnt tell me how this has happned all they said was your car is getting a new engine ,

Once the new engine is in my car and running I will post pics and tell the people who are actually intrested and that it would help more information

Look forward to your updates. Hope it all works out well for you. I would be making it clear your dealership that they should not be giving information to any third party unless it is Audi UK/Germany & their representative.

[Sims]

Since the posted a thread on AZ, here is a related one on the same forum.

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthrea ... ost5528349

[PetrolDave]

the car had the latest software update ,It did over 155 so thought it was delimited lol

Do you mean 0090?

The "155mph" limiter on the RS4 is "inaccurate", even an unlimited RS4 will do nearly 170mph (according to GPS).

[gottanS]

aka_dk,

If Audi do monitor the forums why are they so secret squirel with information, it feels as if once the car is sold they don't want to know and need a clothes peg on their noses to talk to us, their customers. They are well known for pretty much ignoring legitimate customer issues, need i mention DRC and B5 RS4 wheels. If the attitude is top down and looking the dealers you wonder what the higher echelons are like.

Must be a different world on the inside but suspect employees have to sign the Audi Offical Secrets Act first.

To the issue that is the subject of the thread, the scoring to me looks to be from the piston ring(s) as the damage does not cover the full sweep of the piston, if this was a gudgeon pin retainer I believe the damage would be far worse than shown. This could be caused by the piston ring being damaged when assembled and it lasted a while and has now failed.

[ArthurPE]

because it's a litigious society and it's best to keep ones cards close to the chest...
the subject of this thread is a perfect example
DEPOSITS DESTROYED MY ENGINE!!!!!

I agree, the major stuff looks like rings
my guess detonation deformed/buckled them from the extreme pressure
I figure if built wrong, there would be many more, and perhaps isolated to 1 cylinder...

I have my theory on what initiated the detonation...
but I'll hold off until I ponder it some more
it was peculiar to his engine and an issue he had

aka_dk,

If Audi do monitor the forums why are they so secret squirel with information, it feels as if once the car is sold they don't want to know and need a clothes peg on their noses to talk to us, their customers. They are well known for pretty much ignoring legitimate customer issues, need i mention DRC and B5 RS4 wheels. If the attitude is top down and looking the dealers you wonder what the higher echelons are like.

Must be a different world on the inside but suspect employees have to sign the Audi Offical Secrets Act first.

To the issue that is the subject of the thread, the scoring to me looks to be from the piston ring(s) as the damage does not cover the full sweep of the piston, if this was a gudgeon pin retainer I believe the damage would be far worse than shown. This could be caused by the piston ring being damaged when assembled and it lasted a while and has now failed.

[2manytoys]

Here is the one that shows the scoring right at the top.




The dealers thoughts were wrong oil, this caused excess carbon, or carbon related problems, but the marks are believed to be caused by the carbon.

Oh, I never said all engines would be like this (I think I said all engines would suffer from carbon at some stage). At saying that, the carbon is VERY hard, and the bore quite soft. It's a risk if left too long (mine was left to the point of pretty serious pinging initially).

[SR71]

Art says

why would I assume they would lie?

then writes

because it's a litigious society and it's best to keep ones cards close to the chest...

So I reckon he answered his own question.

But Audi play their cards straight...

Anyway, just look at the top of that piston, aside from anything else...

How the **** did it get like that?

What would be the point of engineering piston geometry like the schematic in SilverRS's post, if after a couple of years it looked like that?

Tell me a E92 M3 piston looks like that after 3 years?

I'm sure their Motorsport department would fall on their swords if that was the case.

[P_G]

Ah but BMW don't use FSi / DI technology do they?

[pippyrips]

Maybe they know something the boys at Audi don't?

The OPs particular car issues aside, even 'if' carbon build up doesn't affect performance, surely it represents some risk to internal damage should bits break off the valves etc and make the way into the engine?

[P_G]

Maybe they know something the boys at Audi don't?

They use efficient dynamics instead.

[ArthurPE]

there is a difference between lying and not divuldging information
you know that
very distorted, self serving and disingenuous misinterpretation..

besides lying can become a big problem when it comes out in court
better to say nothing

the 'piston geometry' had nothing to do with it...
I'd like to be able to elaborate, but better to keep quiet
let's just say the rings did the damage...and it is a very rare occurence
this might be the first...

the "Motorsport' department built the e46 M3 S54 which fragged at an alarming rate http://members.roadfly.com/jason/m3engines.htm
no dead 'krauts', no bloody swords
ref their F1 program: there should be bodies stacked like cord wood

btw: ask the 'Motorsport' dept. about the e9x series engines bearing girdle for the bottom of the block...ask them if they had any catastrophic failures on cars with several k miles...I'm curious how much information they will share with you...perhaps they will send you some pictures, lol

or perhaps the e46 diff issues, MANY cars had it replaced
or the recent e46 class action suit settlement...the rear subframes are ripping out on a regular basis

Art says

why would I assume they would lie?

then writes

because it's a litigious society and it's best to keep ones cards close to the chest...

So I reckon he answered his own question.
But Audi play their cards straight...
Anyway, just look at the top of that piston, aside from anything else...
How the **** did it get like that?

What would be the point of engineering piston geometry like the schematic in SilverRS's post, if after a couple of years it looked like that?

Tell me a E92 M3 piston looks like that after 3 years?
I'm sure their Motorsport department would fall on their swords if that was the case.

[ArthurPE]

Ah but BMW don't use FSi / DI technology do they?

actually the majority of their product line does...
528i : Direct ignition system with knock control
afaik the M cars are the exception

the XM's may though ( edit: they DO)
4.4-liter, 32-valve 555-hp twin-turbocharged V-8 engine with High Precision Direct Injection, cylinder-bank comprehensive manifold (CCM), and 4 overhead camshafts


so it would seem they know something Audi does?
and Audi knew it first, lol, so in effect, BMW is copying them, lagging behind, much like their sales in the US
that DI is a benefit
btw: BMW's carbon up just like Audis (or any other DI set-up)

[SR71]

IMHO, DI is all about emissions and economy...nothing else.

Performance and economy may not be diametrically opposed, but no-one here bought a B7 because its good on the juice or spits out 322g/m of CO2...

The fact that Mercedes and BMW don't use it in their top of the pile applications speaks volumes.

I'm sure they'll become increasingly common as the technology matures and I'm sure the X5M (and no doubt the latest M5) application is yards ahead of the NA V8 in the B7.

Whats funny is that a good proportion of owners here like detailing their car. I'm sure they do it partly for fun, but, I'd suggest, its also to protect the "health" of their investment.

But it makes bugger all difference though to the performance though does it....I mean having a clean car doesn't make you go faster does it?

Yet you have those advocating that it is pointless looking after the internals of their engine (I mean fancy cleaning all that s**t out of your engine) when arguably, it makes a significant difference to its performance!

So why is one important and not the other??!!

From where I see it, an engine that can "destroy" its piston geometry with that amount of contamination in such a short space of time is fundamentally compromised.

It doesn't matter if the effect on performance is negligible because ostensibly when I bought the car I paid as much as I did for super-duper cylinder metallugry and piston design to ensure I had the best.

If a set of old Vauxhall Vectra pistons with 100K miles on them would have done the job, I've been robbed!