New M3 v RS4

[audijohn]

If you say each gallon of fuel weighs 6llbs, this = 6 * 13.85 = 37.77 Kg. Take this off the 1700Kg and you have = 1662Kg My Saloon that is with most options.
B*lls just checked it weighed 1700 , so edited

[marin]

PS gave an E46 M3 a spanking last night!!!!!!! give him his due, he wasnt half giving it some.

You would have done so. Dont forget how old the E46 is, bhp, v6 etc etc.... Put things in perspective. I love my M3 but i know against the RS4 i will hardly have a chance. The new M3 will be something special. I dont drive the manual so am expecting big things from the M DCT box next year.

One thing i asked on the forum and nobody answered is how you guys get on with the manual RS4's in the city. I tried the manual M3 and couldnt be bothered so got a SMG as its so useful in London traffic. Anyone shed some light? Experience?

[dodgydave]

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71863

[Janspeed]

One thing I have found that has always been better on Audi cars: the seats!

From the first S/RS versions even the most basic seats have better support than any BMW ones.

Being relatively tall and no skinny bones, any time I would pop around in an M3 or similar, it was a a relatively crappy ride since there was all this sliding about the place and the back pains that followed.

Any S3 has better support, in fact the Recaro seats that I had in the Golf Mk4 were better!

This RS4's bucket seats option seems excellent.

All new BMW sport seats are width adjustable, wayyyyyy better then the Recaros, which are too big for me.

And you pay through your teeth to get those, which are no good really.

[Wacko]

& the new M3 is heavier than the RS4 Saloon

Audi are a little cheeky and measure unladen weights which is just the car
(not in a driveable form).

The standard measure is EU1 weights: car + 68kg driver + accessories +
full fluids + 90% fuel + 7kg cargo.

Here are the differences (on a like-for-like basis) - the differences are
massive

In comparable terms:
the new M3 is 70 kgs heavier than the E46 M3
the new M3 is 204 kgs lighter than the RS4 avant,
and 144kgs lighter than the saloon.

-E60 M5: 1844 kgs (EU1) (275 bhp/t), or 1785kgs (curb) (284bhp/t)
-E46 M3: 1585kgs (EU1) (216 bhp/t), or 1495kgs (curb) (229 bhp/t)
-E92 M3: 1655kgs (EU1) (254 bhp/t), or 1585kgs (curb) (265 bhp/t)
-B7 RS4 (sal): 1799kgs (EU1) (233 bhp/t), or 1650kgs (UNLADEN) (255 bhp/t)
-B7 RS4 (avant): 1859 kgs (EU1) (226 bhp/t), or 1710kgs (UNLADEN)
(246bhp/t)
-C6 RS6 (sal): 1908kgs (EU1) (236 bhp/t), or 1840kgs (UNLADEN) (245
bhp/t)

[audijohn]

If the new M3 is 204Kg lighter than the RS4 it sure is slow for the weight.

[Wacko]

Thats Avant vs Saloon.

[RussianM3_dude]

http://www.caranddriver.com/previews/13 ... tml?al=124

[I-want-an-RS]

All new BMW sport seats are width adjustable, wayyyyyy better then the Recaros, which are too big for me.

Maybe you could try sitting on your head, fit just right then I'd say

[audijohn]

Thats Avant vs Saloon.

OOoops

[tartan_rob]

[/quote]

One thing i asked on the forum and nobody answered is how you guys get on with the manual RS4's in the city. I tried the manual M3 and couldnt be bothered so got a SMG as its so useful in London traffic. Anyone shed some light? Experience?[/quote]

I find the manual fine, clutch is very light and gears easy. At least no different to any other manual. I came from an S4 tip which was very good. The wife's TT DSG was great when moving but take up from standing was absolutely crap.

All in all, if I had the choice, DSG would be best. SMG is good but far too jerky for day-to-day driving and too prehistoric for me, it lacks finesse but I understand that it is better over the manual.

[SR71]

I find compared to my S2, the RS4 clutch is much lighter and the shift less agricultural. The S2 gearbox cannot be rushed during shifts.

I bought the S2 from a friend who could not cope with the shifts living in London and bought an auto 300ZX instead.

I don't live in London (thank God) but do drive through central Cardiff (avoiding the sheep) most days. Oddly, I find that although the torque the V8 generates on paper is quite a low figure, in reality it is quite happy to pull from below 2000rpm in 6th with no fuss.

When I bought the A3 DSG I was sceptical about whether I wanted to relinquish control of a big part of the driving experience to a micro-processor driving a dual clutch mechanism.

However, you have to admit that for town driving, it is fantastic.

The only criticisms I have of the box are, that it often tends to shift down 2 gears, when I'd prefer it to shift down 1...

Other than that, I believe I got my choice right....when I want some fun, out comes the RS4, in which I have no-one but myself to blame if I get the shifts wrong or wind up in the wrong gear, but if I'm looking for economy or efficiency/ease of motoring, I'll take the DSG.

I'd like to try the R-tronic though....

[W8PMC]

& the new M3 is heavier than the RS4 Saloon

Audi are a little cheeky and measure unladen weights which is just the car
(not in a driveable form).

The standard measure is EU1 weights: car + 68kg driver + accessories +
full fluids + 90% fuel + 7kg cargo.

Here are the differences (on a like-for-like basis) - the differences are
massive

In comparable terms:
the new M3 is 70 kgs heavier than the E46 M3
the new M3 is 204 kgs lighter than the RS4 avant,
and 144kgs lighter than the saloon.

-E60 M5: 1844 kgs (EU1) (275 bhp/t), or 1785kgs (curb) (284bhp/t)
-E46 M3: 1585kgs (EU1) (216 bhp/t), or 1495kgs (curb) (229 bhp/t)
-E92 M3: 1655kgs (EU1) (254 bhp/t), or 1585kgs (curb) (265 bhp/t)
-B7 RS4 (sal): 1799kgs (EU1) (233 bhp/t), or 1650kgs (UNLADEN) (255 bhp/t)
-B7 RS4 (avant): 1859 kgs (EU1) (226 bhp/t), or 1710kgs (UNLADEN)
(246bhp/t)
-C6 RS6 (sal): 1908kgs (EU1) (236 bhp/t), or 1840kgs (UNLADEN) (245
bhp/t)

I thought it was agreed that the difference between unladen & EU1 was 75KG?? Where does the difference of 149KG come from?? For the M5's & M3's you say the difference between unladen & EU1 is 75KG, but for Audi (except the RS6) it's 149KG, however the difference in the RS6 is 68KG?? Is it me being thick??

Either way i'm not that bothered as i think in the Audi camp & most of the press to date are giving the RS4 the slight advantage for everyday use & this i'd totally agree with. I'm also sure the new M3 will be the better track car, but only in the dry as if the conditions drop below perfect, the RS4 will once again get the jump. I'm happy with that conclusion

[Wacko]

Hello mate - no, the difference between curb and EU1 is c.75kgs (as you can see from the BMW figures).

The RS6 weight of 1,840 is in fact a curb weight (I got this figure from TrackChallenge who state curb weights not unladen weights) so apologies for that. Doesn't change any conclusions though - whopping 144kgs difference between the RS4 and M3 (plus transmission losses and a lower COG on the M3) - I'm not saying one is better than another just correcting some of the statements on this thread regarding comparative weights.

But I totally agree with you, the RS4 is a better all-rounder and the M3 is a better sports car - depends what you are in the market for. Taking a Porsche analogy: are you a GT3 man or a Turbo man?

I personally don't buy some peoples' argument that 4WD is better because you can push on in the rain. You'd be mad to drive to a point where you are losing control of a RWD car in the rain - I've owned 2x4WD sportscars and 3xRWD sportscars so consider myself neutral.

[RussianM3_dude]

Exactly, I wouldn't push the RS4 on a twisty road in the rain either, horribly understeery on some bends and very little information from the front end due to artificial steering. At 8/10ths, an RWD car is just as easy to drive.