Argon Creative

[Carbon Goodies]

Argon have also offered to repair or replace the parts free of charge for the customer, even after they have been used for motorsport, I'm not sure that the customer has mentioned this. They have not totally refused to do anything, they have just refused a full refund as the parts have been used for motorsport which has caused the damage.

That's because that's utter rubbish. I've received no such offer.

I'm not going to get into an argument or big discussion over this though, I've had no direct involvement in the process, I'm just giving my views as I generally see both side in situations such as this.

Then I would respectfully suggest you stay out of it - you have a biased interest being a supplier, and clearly have been misinformed on several points.

It might be worth speaking to them then as they have told me that they have offered to repair or replace them, just not refund them.

They have just confirmed to me again that: Argon Creative have offered to repair or replace the items for you, just not refund them. Tony is sending you an email as we speak to make you aware of this again.

A discussion like this needs some balance as there are always two sides to any argument, and so far it's been totally one sided. Yes I am slightly biased as they are one of my manufacturers, but I also know how they work and the effort they put into producing their parts.

With regards to not taking part in motorsport, although the Nurburgring is technically a public road, it is still a race track and quite a punishing one at that. It absolutely creates the conditions for motorsport use.

[Surrey Sam]

Their products should clearly be sold as show use only then, if that is both Argons and your view on the situation.

[TonyHayers]

Argon have also offered to repair or replace the parts free of charge for the customer, even after they have been used for motorsport, I'm not sure that the customer has mentioned this. They have not totally refused to do anything, they have just refused a full refund as the parts have been used for motorsport which has caused the damage.

That's because that's utter rubbish. I've received no such offer.

I'm not going to get into an argument or big discussion over this though, I've had no direct involvement in the process, I'm just giving my views as I generally see both side in situations such as this.

Then I would respectfully suggest you stay out of it - you have a biased interest being a supplier, and clearly have been misinformed on several points.

It might be worth speaking to them then as they have told me that they have offered to repair or replace them, just not refund them.

They have just confirmed to me again that: Argon Creative have offered to repair or replace the items for you, just not refund them. Tony is sending you an email as we speak to make you aware of this again.

A discussion like this needs some balance as there are always two sides to any argument, and so far it's been totally one sided. Yes I am slightly biased as they are one of my manufacturers, but I also know how they work and the effort they put into producing their parts.

With regards to not taking part in motorsport, although the Nurburgring is technically a public road, it is still a race track and quite a punishing one at that. It absolutely creates the conditions for motorsport use.

How very kind of you to show some balance. There may be two sides to any argument, but this time you're on the wrong one! You are voluntarily damaging your own brand by defending them here. You're sponsoring this site, I presume, because you think that many of the members are potential customers. It's not good business to try and make them look stupid.

The guy deserves a refund, why should he wait another x weeks for replacement parts. If Argon Goodies or whatever their name is want to defend their reputation, let them come on and do so.

[Carbon Goodies]

Their products should clearly be sold as show use only then, if that is both Argons and your view on the situation.

They are fine for normal road use, just not motorsport use. The lacquer will yellow over time as do the OEM ones but they are fine for normal road use.

It's pretty acamdemic anyway now as the engine bay items are no longer available going forward.

[RIV]

Gaz had the same problem, no Motorsport use

[Carbon Goodies]

How very kind of you to show some balance. There may be two sides to any argument, but this time you're on the wrong one! You are voluntarily damaging your own brand by defending them here. You're sponsoring this site, I presume, because you think that many of the members are potential customers. It's not good business to try and make them look stupid.

The guy deserves a refund, why should he wait another x weeks for replacement parts. If Argon Goodies or whatever their name is want to defend their reputation, let them come on and do so.[/quote]

I didn't realise that by giving a different point of view that i was trying to make the forum members look stupid, far from it.

The law does state that if a fault is found with a product then the supplier/manufacturer have to repair or replace the item, they do not have to give a refund. This situation has been complicated as the parts have been used for motorsport which effectively voids the warranty, but they are still willing to help by repairing or replacing the items. This whole dicussion has been based on the customer basically saying that Argon have refused to do anything about it, when in actual fact they have offered to sort it out wih a repair or replacement. It's just not the outcome that the customer wants that's all.

Personally I think what has been offered is fair.

[HYFR]

How can it void the 'warranty' when the supposed terms of which have not been set out?

[neilparf]

How can it void the 'warranty' when the supposed terms of which have not been set out?

+1

[neilparf]

Personally I think what has been offered is fair.

You would. That's called damage limitation with a suppler that's remotely linked to you and your brand. Frankly, your opinion is very much in the minority.

[neilparf]

They are fine for normal road use, just not motorsport use.

What? Ross did around 8 laps of the Ring. I would wager my children on the fact he reached over 160mph+ on the Autobahn down there - let alone on the Ring, and for a far more prolonged period of time I'm sure.

I would consider 'Motorsport' to be prolonged and continuous with an individual attending several meets - not just a road trip to do less than 10 laps of the Ring in a vehicle that can easily take all in it's stride. Argon and Creative Goodies seem to think they can hide behind this 'Motorsport' nonsense to mask the fact they can't supply on their promise.

The Motorsport/Nurburing argument buy Argon and Carbon Goodies is vexatious at best...

[The_Coat]

Just looking at the photos of the parts how could they think they could send these out before they had even been fitted / used and expect the customer to be happy with them?

If I was Argon I would be offering a full refund to save any kind of reputation they may still have on this forum, I’m sure this thread will also make its way to other forums and can be found via a Google search.

[neilparf]

It does seem a little unfair posting those photos after that particular issue has been sorted.

Ross has every right to ask for a refund. He worked alongside Argon to get a result. He even offered to rectify Argon's issues at home by attempting to polish out the issues. This is chance after chance. He waited a long time. It's clearly been a painful process with very little resolve. At some pint everyone has a right to cal it a day if you can't supply and have had chance after chance. If they offered to rectify poor work, that just marks out they fact they didn't QC or care in the first instance.

they have just refused a full refund as the parts have been used for motorsport which has caused the damage.

No, they are hiding behind that excuse to not refund. The Motorsport defence is purely down to the heat issue - Argon by their own submission in previous posts cited by Ross have said the heat 'will help it settle and form it's shape'.

very hot engine... prolonged period of time

Define those two values in minutes and seconds and degrees C...

As a result of this, Argon has now withdrawn all engine bay products from sale as it's not possible to guarantee against being used for motorsport.

How convenient. Christ there you go - Motorsport again...

On a side note, who is Carbon Creative?

You know exactly who we mean. Unwarranted saracsim in a sensitive situation that does not involve you has no place...

[neilparf]

How very kind of you to show some balance. There may be two sides to any argument, but this time you're on the wrong one! You are voluntarily damaging your own brand by defending them here. You're sponsoring this site, I presume, because you think that many of the members are potential customers. It's not good business to try and make them look stupid.

The guy deserves a refund, why should he wait another x weeks for replacement parts. If Argon Goodies or whatever their name is want to defend their reputation, let them come on and do so.

Tony Hayers - situation summed up personified.

Argon - best thing they can do is refund and save face now.

Creative Goodies (yeah, I got it right) - stay out. I have no idea whey you are involved this deep. All you have done is serve to muddy the situation and frankly, the chances of anyone here ordering from you is getting slimmer by each post. I could understand if you are getting paid to defend Argon here, but I suspect you are not. Why then, would you stand shoulder to shoulder and connect with such poor product supply is beyond me and pretty much every one else...

[neilparf]

No I'm not hiding but I'm also not commenting on specifics until I have a bit more information.

Just for clarity, have Argon asked you to represent them here? If not then, why would you go to this extent? For me, I'd want to distance myself from anyone supplying a product that does't fall in line with my ethos of customer satisfaction, product simply and customer bounce back values...

[S4Player]

It's simpler than everyone is making it out to be. The product is/was inferior and should have never left argon in the first place. The blame solely lies on argon for what would appear to be very very poor QC . That's how simple it is