Heatshield and GruppeM including cold air feed Development

[sonny]

Whats a stage 2 IM, ported / polished (I) and devaned (II)?

No.

Stage one is port and removal of flaps.

Stage two, is the removal of the flap runner spine (part of it protrudes when in the stratified position. Also the ports will be bored out larger. I will in effect be doing away with the vacuum system under the manifold, totally removing the secondary air injection system also.

[sonny]

I could do the Silver and Gold take but... I was thinking of the actually heatsheild?

Nimbus lite heat shield 900x500mm @ £55

http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/Performan ... /3083/1881

Bonding sealant.

http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/Performan ... 83/0/19050

and some PVC edging. 15x10mm meter. about £6.

[Rick_RS4]

as stated surely the standard airbox with a cold feed and extra insulation will be just as good, i personally wouldnt cover a 1000 quid air filter with gold tinfoil, well done for giving it a go but its not a ford focus.

have you done any logs of intake temps and airflow against standard

this is not meant in anyway a dig just constructive critisism.

[sonny]

Yep, the GruppeM is is leaps better than the standard air box in terms of getting air in. However a part of the induction system is exposed to the exhaust manifold. This has been covered up. and blocked out.

A cold air feed will also be added (tomorrow). The reflective tape is to keep the induction system cool, its not just for looks. Im more about go than show.

MRC logged warm air ( 51c iirc)getting into the induction system making the engine <beep> its timing, so power was down, around 10-15ps.

I let you guys know how the car gets on and what the intake temps are.

Im actually thinking of using silver over the gold, but we shall see how it gets on.

Do ppl do this to there focus, in all my modding years I dont think I have ever seen a chaved up car covered in gold reflective tape, race prepped cars yes.

[MB2]

Will be interesting to see what gains you get with "just" the heat-shielding - as if you avoid retarding the ignition so early that will be a big step forward both for power + just seems better for the engine not needing to retarding the ignition, had always seen it as a very marginal mod done by racers looking for that last little bit rather than the way to real gains (although of course the greater the difference between intake temp & engine temo the better obviously.

Given the "forced" nature of the carbonino setup I also wonder if the bhp with 100 mph of air going in will be more than the dyno shows despite the fans they will have.

[rs4george]

just a thought, but if you covered the oem induction system in tape would that not help with the cooler air going into the engine.
or is the amount of air in the gruppe m system larger, from all the pics iv seen ( not seen one in the flesh) the enterance to the gruppe m system apperes to be the same as the oem version.

please feel free to comment as the gruppe m are a lot of money

[sonny]

No the GruppeM has 2 intakes, the snorkel (only part that is same as oem)and the lower part. The power part is where you get the heat soak as its in "eye to eye" contact with the exhaust manifold.

The tape is just to stop the side walls of the induction system from heating up and causing the air being warmed up prior to entering the engine.

[edge]

How has no other company made a copy of the GruppeM for cheaper?

You usually find competitors for most other after market parts

[sonny]

Update on the GruppeM cooling and heatshield.

I took the car upto MRC yesterday to have some more work done.

Mods include.

Delete Off-side Aux rad and fit cold air feed (Lower grill to GruppeM
Remove secondary air injection
Fit Phenolic spacers (heat proof spacers for manifold)
Fit a stage 2 inlet manifold
Upload tweaked custom remap and power runs.

The main aim of this exercise is to see what the GruppeM is capable off.

Last month the car made 423ps with a intake temp of 51c. Intake temp at end of run with new cooling mods was down to 32c. So a lot lot better then before. However, the intake temp is still hotter then an OEM air box (if same ambient air temp was recorded) think the GruppeM is around +7c hotter.

So the cold air feed, heat shield and manifold spacer worked. Pat on the back for me

The care pulled a respectable 450ps

The car, if running the OEM air box with the cold air feed bolted directly to it with a high flow filter will more than likley hit the 460 mark. I will "experiment" with the OEM air box and cold air feed at the next rolling road meet at MRC next month.

Summery, is the GruppeM worth it, if your after looks and a great sound then yes, if your after power, then no, however, unless a better sealed heat shield can be developed then it will be a killer. This info is based on the dyno figures from yesterday.

I will be keeping the GruppeM on as I need to trial it at a few track events.

Two hours later and still fine tuning the map to run well with the stage two manifold. Minhea sending maps from France to Doug via MSN messenger.

Aux rad and secondary air injection unit.

Dyno chart


Thanks to the guys at MRC

[Steve_C]

Sonny, does it drive much differently with the CAF?

[PJC]

I can't vouch for the CAF, I met Sonny for cuppa this morning, the car is very quick and makes a lovely noise too.

[sonny]

Sonny, does it drive much differently with the CAF?

Yes it does, seems to drive better at high speed. More ram air, pipe work now in the GruppeM where as before there was nothing.

[Golfather]

Summery, is the GruppeM worth it, if your after looks and a great sound then yes, if your after power, then no, however, unless a better sealed heat shield can be developed then it will be a killer. This info is based on the dyno figures from yesterday

Its common knowledge that all type of Induction kits and the like are just a big con, as proven time and time again...
Most if not all OEM setups have had a lot of R&D thrown at them to make them as efficient as possible within the space available.

Best stick to OEM then

[sonny]

Summery, is the GruppeM worth it, if your after looks and a great sound then yes, if your after power, then no, however, unless a better sealed heat shield can be developed then it will be a killer. This info is based on the dyno figures from yesterday

Its common knowledge that all type of Induction kits and the like are just a big con, as proven time and time again...
Most if not all OEM setups have had a lot of R&D thrown at them to make them as efficient as possible within the space available.

Best stick to OEM then

Im not new to GruppeM or induction kits, I had GruppeM on my BMW back in 2004, same problems...warm air. The car is still very quick, almost like "go-kart" quick. I do believe that the GuppeM could have been made better, they only would have had to cover the bottom part of the exposed filter and it would be half the problem solved.

Doug mentioned that this set up had the more air flow than any others he had tested.

[thedoluk]

Think i'll stick with my standard air box then with CAF, was thinking about upgrading to a gruppe M to see if I could get more. Maybe wrapping the standard air box would make more sense. I got the following with only stage1 manifold CAF and full milltek no cats.

[img]http://i1084.photobucket.com/album ... .jpg[/img]