Guys, what if we are to change that oil we use? Maybe it is too thin (and it is thin) and is creating part of this build up problem being consumed so quickly. I have friends using Castrol 0W40 (which is even thinner than our long life 5W30) and their engines consume even more oil. So, the thinner it is the more it gets consumed.
On the other hand, all BMW's M engines , including the recent M3 V8 (which in theory is the same high revind direct injection principle as in our RS4 s) use Castrol Edge 10W60, ex RS formula. I ve been reading a lot M3's forums and , they have enough problems too but not THIS problem with build up valves and they have many miles on the clock.
I also asked my MTM official here in my country, and he said that the best oil for our engines is Castrol Edge 10W60 at least in summer time and if you change the oil more often (5000-7000 km) and that info is coming directly from MTM.
This 10W60 Castrol doesn't care our 504.00 VW norm, but, what if is better??? As much as I love Audi RS engines, I must admit that the M engines are at least as good as Audi's and how come they use that oil which is known for being able to cope very well with high reving racing engines and we use the same oil as an 2.0 diesel engine? Something is very wrong here in my oppinion...
RS4 Issues - Anyone got a view?
The answer to the question P_G is that no one knows.
Perhaps Audi know the most, but are they likely to make the knowledge public? Well we can guess the answer to that.
Put it this way though:
* Does anyone know of a single B7 RS4 that has ever developed the quoted power?
* Does anyone know of a single B7 RS4 that has not been coked up when the inlet has been removed?
For me personally, the FSI issue is the most serious, and to me, it appears many are sticking their heads in the sand with respect to it.
My own opinion is that:
* A performance vehicle like the RS4 should not be coking itself up like Caldy's within 3K miles!
* A performance vehicle like the RS4 should not be down on quoted power, for whatever reason.
* A performance vehicle like the RS4 should not smoke on start-up like it does, nor should it be acceptable to use up to 1L/1000 miles of oil!
* A Used Oil Analysis (UOA) from a B7 RS4 should not be indicating the levels of Fe & Al wear that they do, nor should the fuel dilution levels be so high. The soot content is also problematic. This is indication of serious damage being done to the engine. My levels are abnormally high and the recommendation is to change the oil in use immediately, use the only oil presently developed that will mitigate this issue and get the inlet cleaned. There is a non-Audi (i.e., independently developed) database of over 100 cars indicating that my results are absolutely typical of this particular car.
Now whatever the cause of the above, if you bought your car because you're a true enthusiast - not just because at the time of purchase, it was in vogue or you thought it was a good idea - and you intend to keep it for more than the period of the warranty, these issues will bother you, because they're indications of a/some flawed design(s).
Audi have botched the DRC system in the car, we already know that. One would have thought that they'd be particularly careful to iron that issue out after the C5 RS6 issues.
The fact that they didn't - well one may arrive at various conclusions about that.
The issue IS a ticking time-bomb in my opinion.
Perhaps Audi know the most, but are they likely to make the knowledge public? Well we can guess the answer to that.
Put it this way though:
* Does anyone know of a single B7 RS4 that has ever developed the quoted power?
* Does anyone know of a single B7 RS4 that has not been coked up when the inlet has been removed?
For me personally, the FSI issue is the most serious, and to me, it appears many are sticking their heads in the sand with respect to it.
My own opinion is that:
* A performance vehicle like the RS4 should not be coking itself up like Caldy's within 3K miles!
* A performance vehicle like the RS4 should not be down on quoted power, for whatever reason.
* A performance vehicle like the RS4 should not smoke on start-up like it does, nor should it be acceptable to use up to 1L/1000 miles of oil!
* A Used Oil Analysis (UOA) from a B7 RS4 should not be indicating the levels of Fe & Al wear that they do, nor should the fuel dilution levels be so high. The soot content is also problematic. This is indication of serious damage being done to the engine. My levels are abnormally high and the recommendation is to change the oil in use immediately, use the only oil presently developed that will mitigate this issue and get the inlet cleaned. There is a non-Audi (i.e., independently developed) database of over 100 cars indicating that my results are absolutely typical of this particular car.
Now whatever the cause of the above, if you bought your car because you're a true enthusiast - not just because at the time of purchase, it was in vogue or you thought it was a good idea - and you intend to keep it for more than the period of the warranty, these issues will bother you, because they're indications of a/some flawed design(s).
Audi have botched the DRC system in the car, we already know that. One would have thought that they'd be particularly careful to iron that issue out after the C5 RS6 issues.
The fact that they didn't - well one may arrive at various conclusions about that.
The issue IS a ticking time-bomb in my opinion.
58 C6 RS6 Stage 2+
58 C6 A6 Allroad 2.7 TDi
Previous:
2000 B5 S4 MRC 550 Saloon
2007 B7 RS4 Saloon
1994 S2 Coupe
58 C6 A6 Allroad 2.7 TDi
Previous:
2000 B5 S4 MRC 550 Saloon
2007 B7 RS4 Saloon
1994 S2 Coupe
BOGR32,
The issue is not the viscosity.
My car oil temp runs between 90-115C, perhaps slightly higher when pushing on in summer.
The viscosity of a SAE 50 oil at 130C is the same as a SAE 30 oil at 100C.
Alternatively, the viscosity of a SAE 60 oil at 90C is twice the viscosity of a SAE 30 oil at 90C.
But I agree the oil IS the issue.
You can see the difference a custom-spec oil for the RS4 makes here: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ub ... ost1171236
The issue is not the viscosity.
My car oil temp runs between 90-115C, perhaps slightly higher when pushing on in summer.
The viscosity of a SAE 50 oil at 130C is the same as a SAE 30 oil at 100C.
Alternatively, the viscosity of a SAE 60 oil at 90C is twice the viscosity of a SAE 30 oil at 90C.
But I agree the oil IS the issue.
You can see the difference a custom-spec oil for the RS4 makes here: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ub ... ost1171236
58 C6 RS6 Stage 2+
58 C6 A6 Allroad 2.7 TDi
Previous:
2000 B5 S4 MRC 550 Saloon
2007 B7 RS4 Saloon
1994 S2 Coupe
58 C6 A6 Allroad 2.7 TDi
Previous:
2000 B5 S4 MRC 550 Saloon
2007 B7 RS4 Saloon
1994 S2 Coupe
It's a shame, a real shame. I'd been in the market for a seriously quick 4 door salon that looked fab, sounded great and had all the toys since Clarkson raced the stick man up the mountain! So, I log onto the owners forum and it's just one disappointment after another. Yes, forum's are used to grip and ask for advice but this is getting beyond a joke. throughout my driving years an Audi was something you aspired to, not shyed away from.SR71 wrote:The answer to the question P_G is that no one knows.
Perhaps Audi know the most, but are they likely to make the knowledge public? Well we can guess the answer to that.
Put it this way though:
* Does anyone know of a single B7 RS4 that has ever developed the quoted power?
* Does anyone know of a single B7 RS4 that has not been coked up when the inlet has been removed?
For me personally, the FSI issue is the most serious, and to me, it appears many are sticking their heads in the sand with respect to it.
My own opinion is that:
* A performance vehicle like the RS4 should not be coking itself up like Caldy's within 3K miles!
* A performance vehicle like the RS4 should not be down on quoted power, for whatever reason.
* A performance vehicle like the RS4 should not smoke on start-up like it does, nor should it be acceptable to use up to 1L/1000 miles of oil!
* A Used Oil Analysis (UOA) from a B7 RS4 should not be indicating the levels of Fe & Al wear that they do, nor should the fuel dilution levels be so high. The soot content is also problematic. This is indication of serious damage being done to the engine. My levels are abnormally high and the recommendation is to change the oil in use immediately, use the only oil presently developed that will mitigate this issue and get the inlet cleaned. There is a non-Audi (i.e., independently developed) database of over 100 cars indicating that my results are absolutely typical of this particular car.
Now whatever the cause of the above, if you bought your car because you're a true enthusiast - not just because at the time of purchase, it was in vogue or you thought it was a good idea - and you intend to keep it for more than the period of the warranty, these issues will bother you, because they're indications of a/some flawed design(s).
Audi have botched the DRC system in the car, we already know that. One would have thought that they'd be particularly careful to iron that issue out after the C5 RS6 issues.
The fact that they didn't - well one may arrive at various conclusions about that.
The issue IS a ticking time-bomb in my opinion.
And it's not just the RS4. RS6 has it's problems and if you wanted a 2 door coupe you'd also stay away from the S5 as well! Clutch eats itself, the onboard 'MMI' just doesn't work and you can forget the electrics. Jeez, talk about a high quality brand just not delivering for the money you spend.
I will certainly not be buying one. And I'm gutted.
Baggins,
I think you have to be careful what you conclude.
I love the car, and all the above means, is that, if you want to keep the car in that "sweet" spot, the cost has just doubled, because you need to factor in the costs of cleaning the internals (well those you can easily reach) and/or frequent oil changes plus change out the suspension when Audi and/or you get tired of replacing it.
I can't think of another car I'd have at the moment except a GTR but I'll wait to see whether NAGTROC experiences with the vehicle are repeated here in the UK.
I think at the top end of the performance spectrum one might reasonably expect high maintenance costs, but one of the reasons the initial sale price is high, is surely, that the design is not flawed in the first place.
I think you have to be careful what you conclude.
I love the car, and all the above means, is that, if you want to keep the car in that "sweet" spot, the cost has just doubled, because you need to factor in the costs of cleaning the internals (well those you can easily reach) and/or frequent oil changes plus change out the suspension when Audi and/or you get tired of replacing it.
I can't think of another car I'd have at the moment except a GTR but I'll wait to see whether NAGTROC experiences with the vehicle are repeated here in the UK.
I think at the top end of the performance spectrum one might reasonably expect high maintenance costs, but one of the reasons the initial sale price is high, is surely, that the design is not flawed in the first place.
58 C6 RS6 Stage 2+
58 C6 A6 Allroad 2.7 TDi
Previous:
2000 B5 S4 MRC 550 Saloon
2007 B7 RS4 Saloon
1994 S2 Coupe
58 C6 A6 Allroad 2.7 TDi
Previous:
2000 B5 S4 MRC 550 Saloon
2007 B7 RS4 Saloon
1994 S2 Coupe
SR, I fully appreciate that when one goes looking for something a little special you have to allow for that 'special cost' to keep it on the road. But surely when you've saved like crazy for something that fits the bill, regardless of cost, you want it to work, be reliable, have no customer service problems and be able to jump in it, turn the key and expect it to do exactly what you've paid the price for it to do?SR71 wrote:Baggins,
I think you have to be careful what you conclude.
I love the car, and all the above means, is that, if you want to keep the car in that "sweet" spot, the cost has just doubled, because you need to factor in the costs of cleaning the internals (well those you can easily reach) and/or frequent oil changes plus change out the suspension when Audi and/or you get tired of replacing it.
I can't think of another car I'd have at the moment except a GTR but I'll wait to see whether NAGTROC experiences with the vehicle are repeated here in the UK.
I think at the top end of the performance spectrum one might reasonably expect high maintenance costs, but one of the reasons the initial sale price is high, is surely, that the design is not flawed in the first place.
The RS4 just doesn't instill enough confidence for me to go get one.
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PetrolDave
- Cruising
- Posts: 7599
- Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2005 11:28 am
- Location: Southampton, Hampshire UK
What you've described there is a run-of-the-mill "repmobile" not a high performance enthusiasts car.Baggins wrote:you want it to work, be reliable, have no customer service problems and be able to jump in it, turn the key and expect it to do exactly what you've paid the price for it to do?
How many of you know that Porsche routinely replace the engine (at their expense) in the water-cooled 911 because of disasterous engine failure problems? I have 3 friends and colleagues that have experienced this.
A highly developed, highly stressed, high performance vehicle is NOT going to be as reliable and dependable as a low stress repmobile - and IMHO it's crazy to expect the same level of every day drivability.
If you want a "turn the key and it works" car then buy a Mondeo, if you want a car that's really involving then be expected to pay for that fun.
Yep, fully aware of the Porsche problem, not good, not good at all, makes a mockery of their famous 'the only daily drive high performance car on the market' saying doesn't it?PetrolDave wrote:What you've described there is a run-of-the-mill "repmobile" not a high performance enthusiasts car.Baggins wrote:you want it to work, be reliable, have no customer service problems and be able to jump in it, turn the key and expect it to do exactly what you've paid the price for it to do?
How many of you know that Porsche routinely replace the engine (at their expense) in the water-cooled 911 because of disasterous engine failure problems? I have 3 friends and colleagues that have experienced this.
A highly developed, highly stressed, high performance vehicle is NOT going to be as reliable and dependable as a low stress repmobile - and IMHO it's crazy to expect the same level of every day drivability.
If you want a "turn the key and it works" car then buy a Mondeo, if you want a car that's really involving then be expected to pay for that fun.
But tell me, should a whopping great 4.2 V8 be that highly stressed that it needs that much attention from the garages? Wasn't the RS4 built to be a daily drive (and if not, what's the point in making it a 4 seater, 4 door machine that was initially meant to be a hot family car?). I just don't get it.
Me? Focus ST, 2.5 turbo. 4 seats, leather, sat nav, electric everything, big boot, sub 7 second 0-60 and yes, every time I turn the key, it starts, every time.
You can see my disappointment when reading this forum can't you?
I can see both sides, I am recent convert to the RS4, and I was ignorant of these issues prior to buying, never saw this forum, which is perhaps just as well or maybe I would have thought twice. I don't regret it though...yet! I hardly dare say it, but I think I've been reasonably lucky, having bought a 20k miler with no DRC issues to date, which doesn't smoke on start-up and hasn't needed any oil in the 1500 miles I've done so far. It IS a fantastic car, and I love it, but if things get iffy I might regret the change from AMG's, sure they are less involving to drive, not as 'hardcore' as the Audi but they are still quick cars with serious grunt and manage to stay away from the dealership. My E55 did 90k miles in my hands without losing any power, hardly ever needed oil and all it ever had beyond servicing was brakes and a light bulb or two. The C55 estate I followed it with for 3 years and 40k miles was the same. Have to admit though, neither of them looked or felt quite as 'special' as the red esate with the big arches!
I will never regret the choice I made going from an R32 HGP to the RS4. Indeed, the RS4 engine is a very special one, the first high rewing V8 in a large production car if I'm not mistaken. I know that when having a sport car with a top engine you should expect some more attention and more costs to keep it going and I don't mind, it even makes it more special in one twisted way. But, I would like to have a sollution to the problem, I mean to spend the amount of money and then maybe forget about that problem at least for 20-30 k miles, but not to keep on cleaning the engine every 5 k miles. That gets borring to say the least. In fact, I may consider myself lucky as well, no smoke, no alarming oil consumation, no power loss that I can fell, nothing but 2 front shocks changed at 13000 km. I now have 22000 km, bought it from Germany at 12000 km.
By the way, it seems that a lot of that build up problems (or at least those reported by owners) come from people in US and UK. Is there any reason to think that there is something different with the fuel, oil, ECU programing etc between different countries???
By the way, it seems that a lot of that build up problems (or at least those reported by owners) come from people in US and UK. Is there any reason to think that there is something different with the fuel, oil, ECU programing etc between different countries???
Guys I wonder if this is like any other car forum where all that is ever talked about is the problems we experience 
On the Porsche comments above, I have just sold a Cayman S and at the time of buying I was being told that the engine would probably fall to bits at some point given some issues with Boxsters and 911's
I ran the car for 15,000 trouble free miles, selling it with 32,000 on the clock and a clean bill of health from its major service prior to sale. It did need 4 ignition coils (showing slight signs of cracking but otherwise working ok) replaced but they were covered under the extended warranty.
Porsche cars are everyday, sports cars that are reliable no question..... but some do fail and in most cases are sorted by Porsche with or without warranty
To the chap who has been put off, check the ford ST websites you will find plenty of complaints about them to (not in the same class as an RS4 anyway, not even at the same school to be honest). The RS4 is a legend of a car, it is a practical, everyday, Ferrari
414bhp, a boot and four doors, as well as being well put together. Evo had a long termer and had no major issues with it, covering significant miles 
I don't pick my car up for a couple of weeks yet but I am looking forward to it anyway, It does have a warranty until next Jan though and I can understand people being worried if the car is out or soon to be out of warranty
I think I will start a new thread for people to comment if they have not had any major issues
On the Porsche comments above, I have just sold a Cayman S and at the time of buying I was being told that the engine would probably fall to bits at some point given some issues with Boxsters and 911's
I ran the car for 15,000 trouble free miles, selling it with 32,000 on the clock and a clean bill of health from its major service prior to sale. It did need 4 ignition coils (showing slight signs of cracking but otherwise working ok) replaced but they were covered under the extended warranty.
Porsche cars are everyday, sports cars that are reliable no question..... but some do fail and in most cases are sorted by Porsche with or without warranty
To the chap who has been put off, check the ford ST websites you will find plenty of complaints about them to (not in the same class as an RS4 anyway, not even at the same school to be honest). The RS4 is a legend of a car, it is a practical, everyday, Ferrari
414bhp, a boot and four doors, as well as being well put together. Evo had a long termer and had no major issues with it, covering significant miles I don't pick my car up for a couple of weeks yet but I am looking forward to it anyway, It does have a warranty until next Jan though and I can understand people being worried if the car is out or soon to be out of warranty
I think I will start a new thread for people to comment if they have not had any major issues
Yep, member of that and I can't spot any major issues with it. You're right though, forums are a great place to be put off a marque.Les wrote:Guys I wonder if this is like any other car forum where all that is ever talked about is the problems we experience
On the Porsche comments above, I have just sold a Cayman S and at the time of buying I was being told that the engine would probably fall to bits at some point given some issues with Boxsters and 911's
I ran the car for 15,000 trouble free miles, selling it with 32,000 on the clock and a clean bill of health from its major service prior to sale. It did need 4 ignition coils (showing slight signs of cracking but otherwise working ok) replaced but they were covered under the extended warranty.
Porsche cars are everyday, sports cars that are reliable no question..... but some do fail and in most cases are sorted by Porsche with or without warranty
To the chap who has been put off, check the ford ST websites you will find plenty of complaints about them to (not in the same class as an RS4 anyway, not even at the same school to be honest). The RS4 is a legend of a car, it is a practical, everyday, Ferrari
I don't pick my car up for a couple of weeks yet but I am looking forward to it anyway, It does have a warranty until next Jan though and I can understand people being worried if the car is out or soon to be out of warranty
I think I will start a new thread for people to comment if they have not had any major issues
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chrissyr32
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