5th Gear Next Week!

[audijohn]

Well, having a light-ish mid-engine RWD and an RS4, there is obviously a difference in the way they both drive and handle. But in reality, they both are exceptional cars that are thrilling to drive.
Yes the Porsche is more feel-sum and adjustable, and you can play around with the rear end pretty easily (yes, even with the PSM switched on), but the RS4 is dominated by the engine. At the moment, for me it is quite hard to get past the engine. It's intoxicating.
But it doesn't communicate the road to the driver in the same way. It is more of a trust thing with the RS4. You build up the trust with the grip it can generate and use that trust to get the maximum speed over a given road in it. With the Porsche you feel your way to the limit and you can sit on it and play with it, feeling the rubber flexing and the suspension components working.
There is no denying that the RS4 is a devastating car for getting safe and sound from A to B, but sometimes it's nice to think that you, the driver, has actually had a little bit of input into dispatching a road.
Where the thrill of the RS4 is the feel of physics-defying cornering and brutish straight-line speed, the thrill of the Cayman is from pushing the car closer and closer to its limits and feeling and exploring the boundaries between the road and driver.
Tell me to shut-up if you like……..

Shut up but I see where your coming from, but we (meaning the average johnny driver) being mainly family come domestic drivers, like to feel safe and sure of foot when the road surface is cr*p, as most are in the UK, no other car has given me that sure footed feeling ever apart from this RS4, i've had porsches and other powerful audis and tried all the M's and AMG's, none come close to the RS for me as an all round bullit with a big boot and four good seats.
I just can't see what i'm going to buy next to replace it.

[jackwood]

Put me...your very average driver in the RS4 against the 'average driver in the M3 or whatever comparible car RWD' in wet or dry and I'll happily put money on myself.......

Got to be a no contest equation for the 'average' driver?

Unfortunately there is no possible way to test this. There is no such thing as an average driver. You could only do it if you cloned yourself (or any person) and put them in the 2 cars you choose to duel.

The fastest car/driver combination on A-to-B route on a public road will always come down to balls. The driver with the biggest pair will either win or kill himself trying..........

[audijohn]

Put me...your very average driver in the RS4 against the 'average driver in the M3 or whatever comparible car RWD' in wet or dry and I'll happily put money on myself.......

Got to be a no contest equation for the 'average' driver?

Unfortunately there is no possible way to test this. There is no such thing as an average driver. You could only do it if you cloned yourself (or any person) and put them in the 2 cars you choose to duel.

The fastest car/driver combination on A-to-B route on a public road will always come down to balls. The driver with the biggest pair will either win or kill himself trying..........

Yep this is very true, and lets face it if we are playing with a complete nutter on our little fun run, we will back off as we are driving a 50K+ motor and he in all probability is not.

[jackwood]

audijohn,
I completely agree with you. And I know exactly what you mean.
I'm just trying to explain that there are also other aspects to "enjoyable" driving that the average driver (that is all I consider myself) can appreciate in other types of cars.
I spent 2 hours tonight just punting around my local country roads in the Cayman, just for fun. I'd be happy to do exactly the same thing in the RS4. But my time behind the wheel would be spent trying to achieve different things in the 2 different cars. In the RS4 I'd be looking at every opportunity to stretch it to 8200rpm with the sport button on and preferably through a tunnel. It wouldn't be spent stamping on the brakes prior to turning into a tight bend, because the rear goes light and wayward. It would be spent stamping on the throttle mid-corner and being amazed at how much traction and how little drama there is.
In the Porsche it would be spent leaving braking to the last moment, getting the nose into the corner on a balanced throttle, then maybe giving a little lift mid-corner and felling the rear start to loosen before giving it a bit of go and feel the rear tires scrabble, grip and go. I would head for a wicked crested S-kink I know and smile as the car lightens, changes direction, and then settles perfectly damped. But I wouldn't idly flick between gears just for fun (like I do in the RS) because the RS has made the Porsche box feel all wooly by comparison.
They are both great and offer different things to different driving styles or preferences. It is not fair for anyone to say one type is better than another, journalist or Joe Public, because each one is special to one person for their reason alone.

[Norrs2]

Ok, so Tiff made little reference to the RS4!

So what did we learn?

*The M3 did not sound on that film anything like as meaty as the RS4 IMHO.

*I got the impression that he was spouting everything from the Sales Brochure.

*We learned that with the Traction Control switched on you can get a quicker get away in a Ford Fiesta. (In the wet - get a push bike)

*0-60 takes about 4.8 weeks by the time you read the manual and work out all the potential settings in the Idrive.

As for the rest of the "Test":-

Let's turn all the settings to Max and go sideways round the track!!!

Yes Tiff, very informative, we know you like BMW's and have nothing really constructive to tell us about the car because well, you can't really be bothered can you? As long as you get a day out on the track to burn away all the rear tyres on a vehicle that doesn't belong to you, your sorted!

What a load of absolute

[sykotoy]

lol

[alex_123_fra]

Agree completely.

I was looking forward to the "test" as I am trying to find reasons to like the new M3. Tiff's attempt was boring and highly uninformative. I could barely keep my eyes open. The car sounded bland. I'm not interested in how well it drifts around corners...if I wanted that I'd buy a 200SX and be sorted for £50K less than the M3 costs.

An opportunity wasted!

[MEV]

Ok, so Tiff made little reference to the RS4!

So what did we learn?

*The M3 did not sound on that film anything like as meaty as the RS4 IMHO.

*I got the impression that he was spouting everything from the Sales Brochure.

*We learned that with the Traction Control switched on you can get a quicker get away in a Ford Fiesta. (In the wet - get a push bike)

*0-60 takes about 4.8 weeks by the time you read the manual and work out all the potential settings in the Idrive.

As for the rest of the "Test":-

Let's turn all the settings to Max and go sideways round the track!!!

Yes Tiff, very informative, we know you like BMW's and have nothing really constructive to tell us about the car because well, you can't really be bothered can you? As long as you get a day out on the track to burn away all the rear tyres on a vehicle that doesn't belong to you, your sorted!

What a load of absolute

PMSL I bloody missed it as was being harrased on the m4 by BMW drivers funnily enough !! Sounds as though Tiff once again is more interested in showing us how good he can drift rather than inform us what the car is like to live with. Personally one of too many and not even in the same league. RS4 V M3 People who know cars know the result. Power to the understated one!

[Norrs2]

PMSL I bloody missed it as was being harrased on the m4 by BMW drivers funnily enough !! Sounds as though Tiff once again is more interested in showing us how good he can drift rather than inform us what the car is like to live with. Personally one of too many and not even in the same league. RS4 V M3 People who know cars know the result. Power to the understated one!

Here's last night's Fifth Gear clip

http://honda-portal.com/honda-videos.php?video_id=473

[kman]

Ok, so Tiff made little reference to the RS4!

So what did we learn?

*The M3 did not sound on that film anything like as meaty as the RS4 IMHO.

*I got the impression that he was spouting everything from the Sales Brochure.

*We learned that with the Traction Control switched on you can get a quicker get away in a Ford Fiesta. (In the wet - get a push bike)

*0-60 takes about 4.8 weeks by the time you read the manual and work out all the potential settings in the Idrive.

As for the rest of the "Test":-

Let's turn all the settings to Max and go sideways round the track!!!

Yes Tiff, very informative, we know you like BMW's and have nothing really constructive to tell us about the car because well, you can't really be bothered can you? As long as you get a day out on the track to burn away all the rear tyres on a vehicle that doesn't belong to you, your sorted!

What a load of absolute

PMSL I bloody missed it as was being harrased on the m4 by BMW drivers funnily enough !! Sounds as though Tiff once again is more interested in showing us how good he can drift rather than inform us what the car is like to live with. Personally one of too many and not even in the same league. RS4 V M3 People who know cars know the result. Power to the understated one!

eh? i thought the m3 was the understated one (nowadays)...

[rs4v8]

a good point well made sir!!

[pippyrips]

Spot on Norrs2 - the way it ended i thought they must be going back to the M3 to actually give us a view on whether it was any good or not Roll on October and top Gear.

[audijohn]

audijohn,
I completely agree with you. And I know exactly what you mean.
I'm just trying to explain that there are also other aspects to "enjoyable" driving that the average driver (that is all I consider myself) can appreciate in other types of cars.
I spent 2 hours tonight just punting around my local country roads in the Cayman, just for fun. I'd be happy to do exactly the same thing in the RS4. But my time behind the wheel would be spent trying to achieve different things in the 2 different cars. In the RS4 I'd be looking at every opportunity to stretch it to 8200rpm with the sport button on and preferably through a tunnel. It wouldn't be spent stamping on the brakes prior to turning into a tight bend, because the rear goes light and wayward. It would be spent stamping on the throttle mid-corner and being amazed at how much traction and how little drama there is.
In the Porsche it would be spent leaving braking to the last moment, getting the nose into the corner on a balanced throttle, then maybe giving a little lift mid-corner and felling the rear start to loosen before giving it a bit of go and feel the rear tires scrabble, grip and go. I would head for a wicked crested S-kink I know and smile as the car lightens, changes direction, and then settles perfectly damped. But I wouldn't idly flick between gears just for fun (like I do in the RS) because the RS has made the Porsche box feel all wooly by comparison.
They are both great and offer different things to different driving styles or preferences. It is not fair for anyone to say one type is better than another, journalist or Joe Public, because each one is special to one person for their reason alone.

Yes I see your enjoyment factor in driving the rear wheeled car, at my age, the fast safe aspect of driving appeals, and the risk of mistakes are reduced along with intense concentration required whilst pushing hard around A/B roads quick sharp bends in all but perfect conditions.