Yet another oil cooler question (well a few actually)

[Youngben]

I'm not having a go at the product, its top notch for the motor, it's nit unusual to spend a grand a time in this car that's not the problem just don't like my pants pulled down, I'm not the only one who thinks it's a tad expensive for what you get, however as forge say it's all top stuff and has a lifetime warranty while is great so I suppose you pay for that,

Fair point. I dont like getting ripped off either and i will be honest it was priced more than i expected also but i can see where the money has gone on the kit and also Forge being a business have to make a profit otherwise there would be no Forge Motorsport. Im sure there will be deals to be done at Autosport in a couple of weeks and other show special prices in 2014

With the likes of getting parts and doing your own kit i can see where your coming from also but over the years of extensive modifying i have found for the hassle and problems that occur, it is often the case that little is saved and you may as well of just purchased it from a reputable supplier in the first place with piece of mind of if it does go wrong its their job to put it right.

There have been a few instances i recall where I'm sure things probably added up to more than it cost to buy as a package in the first place just because i was trying to save a few quid. but you live and learn

[Rick_RS4]

Yeah true, that has bit me in the ass trying to save a few quid and been stung, and this kit is made to fit so peace of mind it won't be trouble later down the line,

[murph7355]

So has anyone priced up an alternative "bitsa" solution that covers *every* part from block connectors through to the bracket and cooler?

I've been down that path with upgrades on other cars and I'd guess that you'll do well to beat the Forge price on a genuine like for like basis. It can be fun if you have the time to do it, but IME it's rarely saved much money.

Upgrading the oil cooler will probably be on my list for next year. The weakness of the std part is at the back of my mind and I'd be devastated if the car died as a result of it.

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I think its worth clarifying that the cooler isn't weak and whilst using mismatched metals for te connectors is not great, it's not as such 'weak'. Granted, the hoses are not the best and the jhm ones look an ideal replacement. Fitted and protected correctly there should not be any problems.
Let's be honest - nobody would even be considering replacing the oil cooler rad without the corrosion issue caused by crappy fitting.

[sar]

I think its worth clarifying that the cooler isn't weak and whilst using mismatched metals for te connectors is not great, it's not as such 'weak'. Granted, the hoses are not the best and the jhm ones look an ideal replacement. Fitted and protected correctly there should not be any problems.
Let's be honest - nobody would even be considering replacing the oil cooler rad without the corrosion issue caused by crappy fitting.

+1, the actual cooler part of forges kit being sold as an upgrade is misleading, what is the upgrade?.
did forge do any actual testing of oil temps?.

[Audi Pardner]

Time for an update chaps. A mate and I removed the front bumper assembly yesterday (thanks Andy). There was some oil around the connector to the oil cooler and on the smaller radiator in front of it (is this a cooler for the gearbox?), and there was some corrosion around the pipe connectors as we expected. Nothing terribly serious, but as the front's off the car I'm going to replace the existing kit as it's only a matter of time before it starts leaking.

I've decided to go with the JHM oil cooler line upgrade kit from the States. It's not cheap, but the quality looks very good and I think that, in conjunction with the standard Audi oil cooler, will provide a long lasting solution to the inherent problems with the full Audi kit. I might be lucky and be able to re-use the existing cooler (the pipes were replaced under warranty in March 2010 at 25k; now 50k). If not, it'll have to be a new Audi cooler, bumping up the overall spend to about £850-900. The Forge kit might be fine, but personally I'm not convinced that it's a good idea to locate the cooler in front of the main rad at a higher level in terms of air flow to the rad. I also don't like the idea of relocating the sensor unit (?) from above to to below the cross-member (I'm assuming that this is where it goes as it's not shown in it's normal location in the pics I've seen on the forum and on the Forge website).

I'll let you know how I get on, and thanks for the various comments and advice on the thread so far.

[rocket1]

yes i got this job to do at somepoint too!! be interesting to see how you get on with removing pipes from cooler. i,m gonna try a little heat to try and free them then possibly dremel a groove along the union nut to release some pressure of the threads. i think the smaller radiator in front is the air con rad. good luck!

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i think the smaller radiator in front is the air con rad. good luck!

Nope - for the power steering.

[Youngben]

I think its worth clarifying that the cooler isn't weak and whilst using mismatched metals for te connectors is not great, it's not as such 'weak'. Granted, the hoses are not the best and the jhm ones look an ideal replacement. Fitted and protected correctly there should not be any problems.
Let's be honest - nobody would even be considering replacing the oil cooler rad without the corrosion issue caused by crappy fitting.

+1, the actual cooler part of forges kit being sold as an upgrade is misleading, what is the upgrade?.
did forge do any actual testing of oil temps?.

I would class it as an improvement/upgrade over the standard item. To go from the Forge cooler back to the standard cooler would be a downgrade.

As for testing, yes it was tested on my car for the past 5 months. Road gains are minimal which im guessing is down to the thermostat controlled side of the oil cooler? But i would say that it would come into its own on track for the real gains.

The idea of the cooler was never to reduce temperatures but it was to increase reliability which it will excel at im sure! If your buying it as a performance upgrade for the road then it is not for you but if you plan a 3000 mile road trip like i done this year, then the last thing you want is to be stranded in the middle of nowhere out of your comfort zone in Europe with help hours away sat in a pool of oil because you skimped on maintaining your performance car.

[Audi Pardner]

Ben - I think the 'upgrade' necessary here is the use of better pipes/connectors than the standard and failure-prone OEM ones, so as I see it both the Forge kit and the JHM option I'm going for (see above) would achieve this. It boils down to individual preference IMO. Do you know if the Setrab cooler that Forge use has a better flow rate or other superior characteristics to the Audi one as a matter of interest?

[Youngben]

Ben - I think the 'upgrade' necessary here is the use of better pipes/connectors than the standard and failure-prone OEM ones, so as I see it both the Forge kit and the JHM option I'm going for (see above) would achieve this. It boils down to individual preference IMO. Do you know if the Setrab cooler that Forge use has a better flow rate or other superior characteristics to the Audi one as a matter of interest?

Yes i agree the pipes seem to be the main issue but also the fittings on the standard cooler cant be very heavy duty to just crumble once the connections are removed? mine is still all in 1 piece after being removed so i haven't seen this first hand.

As far as flow rate goes, with Setrab being top of the game of cooling i would say it would be up there with flow design and maximum efficiency for the type of engines/market they supply to. The Audi cooler does not seem that good in terms of cosmetic appearance and does look cheaper and also the "Rows" are noticeably smaller to the Setrab item so with that along the Setrab would be a better flow along with improved cooling as the oil is spread over a greater surface area for air contact compared to the standard item.

Everything is in place for an all round better piece of kit but as said its not something i have noticed on the road but i put money on it coming into its own on track or a good blast around snowdon. I have not seen temps above 104 yet with spirited driving in the 5 months it has been fitted

[Audi Pardner]

104's good, so it may well have a better flow rate, but as I drive like Miss Daisy I'll see how I get on with the JHM/OEM option

[adsgreen]

Ben - I think the 'upgrade' necessary here is the use of better pipes/connectors than the standard and failure-prone OEM ones, so as I see it both the Forge kit and the JHM option I'm going for (see above) would achieve this. It boils down to individual preference IMO. Do you know if the Setrab cooler that Forge use has a better flow rate or other superior characteristics to the Audi one as a matter of interest?

Yes i agree the pipes seem to be the main issue but also the fittings on the standard cooler cant be very heavy duty to just crumble once the connections are removed? mine is still all in 1 piece after being removed so i haven't seen this first hand.

Its galvanic corrosion that is the issue. You could make the oil cooler fittings twice as "beefy" and it wouldn't change much. The cooler is ali, the oil hoses are steel so add water then the ali material will always corrode due to it being the anode in the electrical reaction. This isn't a reflection on the oil cooler quality but more the quality of the original fitting. this isn't a new phenomenon or something that is unheard of... The key is to simply prevent water getting between the dissimilar metals so stopping the reaction. Can do it internally with thread sealer or externally with say a waterproof cover over the joint.

[Youngben]

I understand that i work in mechanical engineering. What i was trying to say was i haven't seen one first hand when taken apart to see how good material is as in wall thickness or amount of damage caused when split.

I guessed that it was splitting the whole fitting but guessing it is just stripping the thread? When i said mine is still in 1 piece i meant that my cooler is still connected to my hoses so haven't seen the damaged caused first hand on the coolers when the hoses are removed.

You would think the Germans would be on top of this kind of thing with their over engineering but at the same time i guess its something they can make money on through maintenance cost from the customer over the years.

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Threads are a big issue - some have found them trashed even after cutting the hoses off.
Problem is most places simply try to undo the hoses and the corrosion is stronger than the Ali!