B7 RS4 Rolling Road Day 18th April 2009 (Free of Charge)

[pippyrips]

The one thing that has really got me puzzled is that mine and Robs cars have had pretty much the same treatment. Robs car has about 5k more on the clock but the major difference is we know that Robs car has a pollished manifold and has been de-coked. Now my car without doubt will be as dirty as hell inside so does this mean that coking isn't the huge problem that we maybe believe it to be with regards to power loss? Don’t get me wrong I'm not saying for one minute that the coking is acceptable or that long long term there are problems to be had from it, but just going on the basic facts of my car verses Rob's it would show that it maybe isn't the only issue with power loss????

I have to say though I was very surprissed to see some of the results especially from remapped cars. What I will say is it all takes time and you need to work on it. Both myself and Rob have spent time and money working on custom maps with lots of Dyno runs and improving the airflow both in and out of our engines and are now pushing what Audi said the car would produce. Is it wrong that I was over the moon at hitting 413.2 when the reality is that with the improvements and money spent my car had gained around 45 bhp so should be 460bhp. Either way I love my car and now it is a true 400 + car I'm happy with what I have. But I have to say if my car was standard and ran anything below 350 today I think I would be banging very hard on Audi's Door on Monday morning wanting some answers.......

I really do hope though that all of this doesnt take away from what was a great day with a great bunch of guys and what still are lovely motors!!

CheeRS Boys

Jimbo

Nicely put and good question Jimbo. Hopefully when mine is opened again we will shed more light on whether the build-up is an issue and just how quickly it occurs.

Interesting after talking to all those whose cars have run previously at SSRR, all were down by appox. 20bhp.

Without starting a this dyno/that dyno debate it does prove you can get pretty much any result you want dependant on where you go.

The only thing we should be concerning ourselves is what the gaps are between the cars - not what the out and out bhp figure were.

Jimbo - can we get the dyno graphs added to this thread?

[rAudiguy]

once I have them and as long as everyone is happy for me to post them I will add them

Jim

[pippyrips]

Top man - Can those not happy with their dyno's being posted make themselves known.......

[Oli]

ha ha......, no seriously I want to see mine, to compare it to when its sorted to see how a fu$ked MAF affects things

[SR71]

We knew almost 2 years ago the cars weren't making the numbers surely? At the time the debate was nothing to do with the deposition issue because, AFAIK, no-one knew that to be the case at the time.

http://www.rs246.com/index.php?name=PNp ... light=dyno

The difference between pippyrips and rAudiguys cars surely demonstrates that the the major restriction to good flow is the cats. In comparison, cleaning out the manifold is not going to have a huge effect.

My completely stock car dynoed on exactly the same type of dyno, in the same shoot mode, 20 miles down the road, on a hotter day (~6 months ago), 20hp more than today? Figure that one out?

Curiously, are we sure that all the runs done with traction control selected "fully" OFF?

My own feeling is that the 4WD system is too clever for the rollers - knowing what the TC system is like, its super sensitive and if the EBD and EDL are kicking in all the time, it'll f**k with the numbers...

What we should have done in retrospect was invite an Audi Technical rep.

I felt better when the operator said RS4's make better numbers than R8's.

[klauster]

We knew almost 2 years ago the cars weren't making the numbers surely? At the time the debate was nothing to do with the deposition issue because, AFAIK, no-one knew that to be the case at the time.

http://www.rs246.com/index.php?name=PNp ... light=dyno

The difference between pippyrips and rAudiguys cars surely demonstrates that the the major restriction to good flow is the cats. In comparison, cleaning out the manifold is not going to have a huge effect.

My completely stock car dynoed on exactly the same type of dyno, in the same shoot mode, 20 miles down the road, on a hotter day (~6 months ago), 20hp more than today? Figure that one out?

Curiously, are we sure that all the runs done with traction control selected "fully" OFF?

My own feeling is that the 4WD system is too clever for the rollers - knowing what the TC system is like, its super sensitive and if the EBD and EDL are kicking in all the time, it'll f**k with the numbers...

What we should have done in retrospect was invite an Audi Technical rep.

I felt better when the operator said RS4's make better numbers than R8's.

i can't help think that the only explanation for poor dyno's of some cars, ie. sub 350 must boil down to something strange with the way the power is being recorded on the dyno...

I mean I have owned a 310bhp car before, and a 280bhp, and mt RS4 is substantially more powerful, in a different league, not 15bhp more! I have come to the honest conclusion, having just taken my car out again for spin, that if its running 325bhp i will show my ass in woolies window!

[P_G]

OK, so only got back 3 and a bit hours ago having set off at 6am, all I can say is Nottingham is an absolute s***hole for accidents and traffic jams!

Great day out and some interesting numbers, I would also be keen to see the torque numbers and find out is there is such a range in them also.

For me the whole day was to see if there was consistency in numbers bewteen cars on a road, not if Paramounts DD road matched someone elses. This will never be the case unless they have an identical cell with identical cooling and extraction. Looking at my original r/r result when I bought the car it achieved 367.8 bhp in 4th on Shoot_44 so I can't even begin to compare the two, however the result I got given the car had just done a 300 mile trip with only 30 minutes cool down time compared to bn8959 whose car was done at optimum, i.e just warmed up, is satisfying for me.

As good as the turn out was the time restriction and number of runs hampered true results because you had cars at different temperatures. So for everyone don't read too much into what your figures meant with exception to those who have now had engine faults diagnosed and can go and have their cars looked at by Audi.

As to remapping, those who have had throttle agression tables and throttle body opening tables changed does not mean you will get extra power, it just feels more usable. Unless your mappers have been sitting there on a road altering the fueling and time in front of you the likelihood is that they have not changed these.

And as for engine coking, is it really the issue? I believe it controbutes but the degree to which is detrimental is low By the looks of tings mine had the highest mileage there today, 46000 approx. IIRC, and my stock car is better than other stock cars with less miles and therefore less coking and within 5bhp of those with remaps and customised exhausts and in the case of some cars, better than remapped ones.

All I am taking from this is that it was a great day, well worth the 600 miles and 15 hours out of the house and that rolling roads are not an exact science and should not be used as a benchmark in any event with which to complain to Audi because they are so consistently inconsistent.

My thanks to Jim for organising and Paramount for their time, enjoy the drink, you guys deserved it.

[P_G]

Pippyrips – 416.3
rAudiguy – 413.2
bn8959 – 386.2 STOCK, 18k miles
Outlaw – 376.8
dubbers – 374.9
Dom81 – 371.7
SR-71 – 369.9
Scoobysnack – 367.6
Jezzer – 367.4
Red Rocket – 363.5
Adam – 363.5 APS remap, 13k miles
P_G – 359.7 STOCK 46000mls 3000 miles until AVS 3 oil change
Marcus_RS4 – 355.8
Pad125 – 355.3
Rs4_avant – 347.8
Gazzer68 – 343 STOCK 33800mls
timRS4 – 338.2
Klauster – 325
Scaghead – 311.8
MacRS4 – 301.9
Oli – 297.3 (Maff fault code) STOCK 33600mls

[Jezzer]

Pippyrips – 416.3
rAudiguy – 413.2
bn8959 – 386.2 STOCK, 18k miles
Outlaw – 376.8
dubbers – 374.9
Dom81 – 371.7
SR-71 – 369.9
Scoobysnack – 367.6
Jezzer – 367.4 STOCK 11k miles, 2k miles since last oil change
Red Rocket – 363.5
Adam – 363.5 APS remap, 13k miles
P_G – 359.7 STOCK 46000mls 3000 miles until AVS 3 oil change
Marcus_RS4 – 355.8
Pad125 – 355.3
Rs4_avant – 347.8
Gazzer68 – 343 STOCK 33800mls
timRS4 – 338.2
Klauster – 325
Scaghead – 311.8
MacRS4 – 301.9
Oli – 297.3 (Maff fault code) STOCK 33600mls[/b]

[dubbers]

My thanks to Jim and the folks at Paramount for getting yesterdays event together. It was real insight to see the varying nature of the RS4 outputs and I think a good baseline was achieved with the figured outputs. Also thanks to Andy for his diagnostics!

Pippyrips – 416.3
rAudiguy – 413.2
bn8959 – 386.2 STOCK, 18k miles
Outlaw – 376.8
dubbers – 374.9 STOCK, 22K miles, 3K (12 months) since last oil change
Dom81 – 371.7
SR-71 – 369.9
Scoobysnack – 367.6
Jezzer – 367.4 STOCK 11k miles, 2k miles since last oil change
Red Rocket – 363.5
Adam – 363.5 APS remap, 13k miles
P_G – 359.7 STOCK 46000mls 3000 miles until AVS 3 oil change
Marcus_RS4 – 355.8
Pad125 – 355.3
Rs4_avant – 347.8
Gazzer68 – 343 STOCK 33800mls
timRS4 – 338.2
Klauster – 325
Scaghead – 311.8
MacRS4 – 301.9
Oli – 297.3 (Maff fault code) STOCK 33600mls

[Oli]

Pippyrips – 416.3
rAudiguy – 413.2
bn8959 – 386.2 STOCK, 18k miles
Outlaw – 376.8
dubbers – 374.9 STOCK, 22K miles, 3K (12 months) since last oil change
Dom81 – 371.7
SR-71 – 369.9
Scoobysnack – 367.6
Jezzer – 367.4 STOCK 11k miles, 2k miles since last oil change
Red Rocket – 363.5
Adam – 363.5 APS remap, 13k miles
P_G – 359.7 STOCK 46000mls 3000 miles until AVS 3 oil change
Marcus_RS4 – 355.8
Pad125 – 355.3
Rs4_avant – 347.8
Gazzer68 – 343 STOCK 33800mls
timRS4 – 338.2
Klauster – 325
Scaghead – 311.8
MacRS4 – 301.9
Oli – 297.3 (Maff fault code) STOCK 33600mls SVC due next week

[Gazzer68]

Pippyrips – 416.3
rAudiguy – 413.2
bn8959 – 386.2 STOCK, 18k miles
Outlaw – 376.8
dubbers – 374.9 STOCK, 22K miles, 3K (12 months) since last oil change
Dom81 – 371.7
SR-71 – 369.9
Scoobysnack – 367.6
Jezzer – 367.4 STOCK 11k miles, 2k miles since last oil change
Red Rocket – 363.5
Adam – 363.5 APS remap, 13k miles
P_G – 359.7 STOCK 46000mls 3000 miles until AVS 3 oil change
Marcus_RS4 – 355.8
Pad125 – 355.3
Rs4_avant – 347.8
Gazzer68 – 343 STOCK 33800mls, service done 2 weeks ago
timRS4 – 338.2
Klauster – 325
Scaghead – 311.8
MacRS4 – 301.9
Oli – 297.3 (Maff fault code) STOCK 33600mls SVC due next week

[rAudiguy]

My thanks to Jim for organising and Paramount for their time

P_G

Huge effort mate and I think we all take our hats off to you for making such a journey to be part of it.

all I can say is Nottingham is an absolute s***hole

Were you just passing through.....? hehe lol



There was one very consistent piece of evidence determined on the day that no one can argue with though and that is my God the DVLA have done well out of us lot...............

cheeRS

Jim

Pippyrips – 416.3
rAudiguy – 413.2
bn8959 – 386.2 STOCK, 18k miles
Outlaw – 376.8
dubbers – 374.9 STOCK, 22K miles, 3K (12 months) since last oil change
Dom81 – 371.7
SR-71 – 369.9
Scoobysnack – 367.6
Jezzer – 367.4 STOCK 11k miles, 2k miles since last oil change
Red Rocket – 363.5
Adam – 363.5 APS remap, 13k miles
P_G – 359.7 STOCK 46000mls 3000 miles until AVS 3 oil change
Marcus_RS4 – 355.8
Pad125 – 355.3
Rs4_avant – 347.8
Gazzer68 – 343 STOCK 33800mls, service done 2 weeks ago
timRS4 – 338.2
Klauster – 325
Scaghead – 311.8
MacRS4 – 301.9
Oli – 297.3 (Maff fault code) STOCK 33600mls SVC due next week

[pad125]

Pippyrips – 416.3
rAudiguy – 413.2
bn8959 – 386.2 STOCK, 18k miles
Outlaw – 376.8
dubbers – 374.9 STOCK, 22K miles, 3K (12 months) since last oil change
Dom81 – 371.7
SR-71 – 369.9
Scoobysnack – 367.6
Jezzer – 367.4 STOCK 11k miles, 2k miles since last oil change
Red Rocket – 363.5
Adam – 363.5 APS remap, 13k miles
P_G – 359.7 STOCK 46000mls 3000 miles until AVS 3 oil change
Marcus_RS4 – 355.8
Pad125 – 355.3 STOCK 28000mls serviced in Dec08
Rs4_avant – 347.8
Gazzer68 – 343 STOCK 33800mls, service done 2 weeks ago
timRS4 – 338.2
Klauster – 325
Scaghead – 311.8
MacRS4 – 301.9
Oli – 297.3 (Maff fault code) STOCK 33600mls SVC due next week

[klauster]

OK, so only got back 3 and a bit hours ago having set off at 6am, all I can say is Nottingham is an absolute s***hole for accidents and traffic jams!

Great day out and some interesting numbers, I would also be keen to see the torque numbers and find out is there is such a range in them also.

For me the whole day was to see if there was consistency in numbers bewteen cars on a road, not if Paramounts DD road matched someone elses. This will never be the case unless they have an identical cell with identical cooling and extraction. Looking at my original r/r result when I bought the car it achieved 367.8 bhp in 4th on Shoot_44 so I can't even begin to compare the two, however the result I got given the car had just done a 300 mile trip with only 30 minutes cool down time compared to bn8959 whose car was done at optimum, i.e just warmed up, is satisfying for me.

As good as the turn out was the time restriction and number of runs hampered true results because you had cars at different temperatures. So for everyone don't read too much into what your figures meant with exception to those who have now had engine faults diagnosed and can go and have their cars looked at by Audi.

As to remapping, those who have had throttle agression tables and throttle body opening tables changed does not mean you will get extra power, it just feels more usable. Unless your mappers have been sitting there on a road altering the fueling and time in front of you the likelihood is that they have not changed these.

And as for engine coking, is it really the issue? I believe it controbutes but the degree to which is detrimental is low By the looks of tings mine had the highest mileage there today, 46000 approx. IIRC, and my stock car is better than other stock cars with less miles and therefore less coking and within 5bhp of those with remaps and customised exhausts and in the case of some cars, better than remapped ones.

All I am taking from this is that it was a great day, well worth the 600 miles and 15 hours out of the house and that rolling roads are not an exact science and should not be used as a benchmark in any event with which to complain to Audi because they are so consistently inconsistent.

My thanks to Jim for organising and Paramount for their time, enjoy the drink, you guys deserved it.

i completely agree, I thoroughly enjoyed the day, was great to meet some fellow RS4 drivers. and the drive was great (except for stinking M1 at Nottingham)

Cheers again,