RS4 Finance, good deal....?

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markwm
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Re: RE: RS4 Finance, good deal....?

Post by markwm » Thu Mar 22, 2007 7:47 pm

Dom81 wrote:
markwm wrote:Why would I want to own a highly expensive asset that loses so much value so quickly?
Maybe I don't understand after all - it sounds like you're somehow avoiding the depreciation
I'm not doing that...that really depends on the car I guess.

Once I've sold my current car(which I just have) I have to add a little bit of cash and then finance the rest. Then I pay reasonable monthly payments for however long I own the car.

What's the alternative? withdraw 30k from my business to make the difference, pay £7.5k in income tax on that and own the car outright. In doing so I'll have £30k less in the business to invest in [whatever].

If that 30k can make me more than what it costs in interest then that would be ideal. That's the idea anyway.

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TWH
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Re: RE: Re: RE: RS4 Finance, good deal....?

Post by TWH » Fri Mar 23, 2007 12:04 pm

Thorny wrote:depreciation affects finance arrangements the same way as if you own it outright - there really is no difference, it all just really boils down to where you want to put your money... And yes the balance goes to you less the value of the balloon (or whatever you owe at that time if you settle it early). The cheapest way of doing it (apart from buying outright) is putting it on yuor mortgage.
Now the whole borrowing on a mortgage thing is another kettle of fish - it's normally the cheapest way in terms of your monthly payments, but if you've got a 20 year mortgage, you're effectivley paying 25 years of interest on the extra you borrow from the mortgage, so although it costs less monthly, overall it's a lot more expensive than say a 5 year loan.

The only thing that gets me about finance deals where you put down a sizeable deposit is that if in this instance you put down £28k deposit, after your monthly payments, you've got your baloon of 28k, so if you decide to swap for another car, and your car is now worth say £35k, you've now only got a £7k deposit to put towards the new one and that's gonna keep decreasing.

I appreciate that it's just the depreciation that you'd be taking anyway, but it seems a rough way to do it. BUT, you're point about having the money in your business and therefore being able to invest elsewhere and in that respect then not pay tax on the sum you would otherwise put into the car, that's a real deal changer and probably makes it exceedingly worth while. In very much the same way that most businesses will leverage debt against a business when buying it, even if they have the capital to do so outright, because you can then offset the debt against profits and get around tax.
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RE: Re: RE: RS4 Finance, good deal....?

Post by david7m » Fri Mar 23, 2007 12:56 pm

I knew I shouldn't have got involved in this :oops:

Markwm - I definately do not think you have bit of more than you can chew!

Thorny - not sure adding £X to a mortgage is the cheapest way of doing anything!

I'm out of this thread, good luck chaps!

Over and Out ;)

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Re: RE: Re: RE: RS4 Finance, good deal....?

Post by markwm » Fri Mar 23, 2007 4:41 pm

TWH wrote:
Thorny wrote:depreciation affects finance arrangements the same way as if you own it outright - there really is no difference, it all just really boils down to where you want to put your money... And yes the balance goes to you less the value of the balloon (or whatever you owe at that time if you settle it early). The cheapest way of doing it (apart from buying outright) is putting it on yuor mortgage.
Now the whole borrowing on a mortgage thing is another kettle of fish - it's normally the cheapest way in terms of your monthly payments, but if you've got a 20 year mortgage, you're effectivley paying 25 years of interest on the extra you borrow from the mortgage, so although it costs less monthly, overall it's a lot more expensive than say a 5 year loan.

The only thing that gets me about finance deals where you put down a sizeable deposit is that if in this instance you put down £28k deposit, after your monthly payments, you've got your baloon of 28k, so if you decide to swap for another car, and your car is now worth say £35k, you've now only got a £7k deposit to put towards the new one and that's gonna keep decreasing.

I appreciate that it's just the depreciation that you'd be taking anyway, but it seems a rough way to do it. BUT, you're point about having the money in your business and therefore being able to invest elsewhere and in that respect then not pay tax on the sum you would otherwise put into the car, that's a real deal changer and probably makes it exceedingly worth while. In very much the same way that most businesses will leverage debt against a business when buying it, even if they have the capital to do so outright, because you can then offset the debt against profits and get around tax.
I decided to go for a low baloon and slightly higher monthly payment over 3 years in the end. Interested calculated daily.

Regarding depreciation. I guess if you buy the right car at the right time you could own it for X months having only paid running costs and X months interest on the loan.

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Post by alex_123_fra » Sun Mar 25, 2007 8:18 pm

In the right circumstances, finance agreements can be hugely useful as mentioned above. I personally would never engage into any kind of agreement where any balloon payment of any kind is involved, no matter how well I feel I invest my money.

I'll be going for a 1-1.5 year-old RS4 of £40-45k in value. Putting in £30k from the sale of my current car, which is worth around £40k. Investing the £10k difference and taking out a 3-year £15k loan at 6.2% (or less if possible) with monthly repayments of £455 or so and the option of total repayment at any point with no penalties.

Lots of different ways of doing this. One thing which I am never doing again, is buying a new car. I've lost far too much money in depreciation for little added benefit to be doing that again. I now only buy second hand cars with 1.5-2 years warranty left plus extend at the end of this if necessary. Never had a problem with anything going wrong.
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Re: RE: Re: RE: RS4 Finance, good deal....?

Post by Adam » Wed Mar 28, 2007 9:11 pm

TWH wrote: Now the whole borrowing on a mortgage thing is another kettle of fish - it's normally the cheapest way in terms of your monthly payments, but if you've got a 20 year mortgage, you're effectivley paying 25 years of interest on the extra you borrow from the mortgage, so although it costs less monthly, overall it's a lot more expensive than say a 5 year loan.
Think you are missing the point here. Most mortgages allow overpayments so you add the £28k on the mortgage and pay the £28k off in the same period of time, ie 5 years, in addition to usual mortgage payments.

If your mortgage is 5% and car loan is 7% you are simply borrowing for 2% less.

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RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: RS4 Finance, good deal....?

Post by TWH » Thu Mar 29, 2007 1:11 pm

That depends on your mortgage - not all allow overpayments by any stretch of the imagination!!!

And many people think adding money to a mortgage is the cheapest way without thinking that if you're not making overpayments it's anything but cheaper. Just pointing it out is all.
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RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: RS4 Finance, good deal....?

Post by Adam » Thu Mar 29, 2007 11:26 pm

Valid point too, I did say "most" mortgages allow over-payment certainly all the ones I looked at recently.

Agreed some people think mortgages are somethign they can forget about and keep getting a new 25 year one every time they move property!?!

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RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: RS4 Finance, good deal....?

Post by RS4_Nick » Tue Jul 14, 2009 10:39 pm

Sorry to resurrect this thread but I'm thinking of using a finance company to fund my next car.
Basically I have £8k in cash to put down as deposit on a 2nd hand RS4. I'm thinking of spending around £33k.
In 3 yrs time when I "give the car back" I'm hoping it'll still be worth more than the balance baloon payment (£12.5k). Looking at early 2001 B5s they are still fetching good money. Now I'm talking about a B7 here and as they don't make them any more I'm counting on them maintaining similar, or more, demand/desirability..
I do only 9k a year so if I find a nice low mileage example (22k-ish..) then in three years time it will have 50k on the clock. Low miles for a 5yr old car.. I can't predict what the value will be (can we ever!) but I'd hope it would be somewhat more than £12.5k. Therefore I hope to recover much of my deposit..

I welcome your comments. Hope I'm not coming across as niave!

Nick

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RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: RS4 Finance, good deal....?

Post by Gazzer68 » Tue Jul 14, 2009 11:01 pm

Sounds a good deal, but that would depend on the monthly payments?
Won't be good if there £2000
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Post by Pharoah » Wed Jul 15, 2009 8:44 am

Nick if you want me to look at a finance deal for you - drop me a pm. I work for the vehicle finance arm of one of the high street banks and can get some cracking deals at the moment.

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Post by Kingkong » Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:07 am

Golden rule is not to buy a car on finance, it's a depreciating asset (oxymoron I know) and you’re paying fixed costs on a car that’s losing money and it’s even worse if you write it off.

I think if you’re financing a car you can’t really afford it..

Just my 2 cents..
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Post by Les » Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:37 am

For me it's got to be a personal loan and as such not secured on the car.

You own the car from purchase and usually the depreciation runs close to the reduction in what you owe so when you sell you should be able to clear most of the outstanding debt, give or take, especially with these cars.

Selling will be easier also as the car won't have finance on it which can put buyers off.
Speak to your bank, a £25k loan should cost you about £500 a month over 5 years and with your own £8k deposit you should never be in negative equity on the car :D
You will off course still lose money, i.e. you put in £8k at the start and may only take out £3k at the end but that's cars for you, they cost money!

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Post by HYFR » Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:37 am

I agree. . . as the car loses money you're basically paying more, in relative terms

would it not be best to lease a brand new car, then as long as the lease payments over 3 yrs are less than 50% value of the car then you're quids in vs. buying it out right brand new (assuming it loses 50% of value after 3 yrs)

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Post by UNI555 » Wed Jul 15, 2009 10:05 am

Kingkong wrote:Golden rule is not to buy a car on finance, it's a depreciating asset (oxymoron I know) and you’re paying fixed costs on a car that’s losing money and it’s even worse if you write it off.

I think if you’re financing a car you can’t really afford it..

Just my 2 cents..
That may be the sensible approach, but how sensible is it to own these cars anyway? You can't really reason that it's ok to write off loads of money (as compared to a 'sensible' car) in fuel, road tax, insurance, tyres, brake disc etc etc, but finance costs are unnaceptable. Also, in terms of depreciation, I bought my RS at 18 months old for about 27k less than it cost new. Who's worse off? me with some finance on the car or the original owner who (theoretically) bought it new for cash?
I'd hazard a guess that this would be a pretty lonely forum if we all had to be cash buyers!

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