RS4 B5 vs RS4 B7

[FrankC]

Just out of interest the new 997 gets round the ring 27 sec quicker than the 996 it replaced......i would hope the new RS4 manages a similarly impressive time reduction,might be a few more happy faces with regards the new model.
Cheers fc

[RS4ever]

Both have similar times around the ring but stick them onto a shorter race circiut and I know for fact that the bmw will walk all over the audi on a dry day.

Nope I don't think so. A CSL will hold an RS4 but a standard M3 has no chance.

[TarmacTerrorist]

I really wish that were the case, but it just aint im afraid.

If you were to stick all three down a long stretch of road next to each other and have an all out BFI test (brute force and ignorance) the audi would win every time, no doubt about it. Start throwing a couple of islands in every few km and the short comings of your front end loaded estate car will become apparent....Come to think about it, this all sounds like the trip to lemans last year ,

Not only do the figures speak for themselves but the simple fact the M3 has been spawned directly from the race track means it was always going perform well with its standard setup when it gets back on one.

I really do hope that Audi have an Ace up there sleeve with the new rs4 underpinings as alot seems to be riding on it for them. What I dont want to see though is it turn into a 'king-of-bling' contest between them and BMW which is where it looks like it is going.

[TarmacTerrorist]

God help us all, when we are subjected to the first lines about the new rs4 in some bad ass mothers rap song.....:shootbrainsout:

[scillyisles]

Both have similar times around the ring but stick them onto a shorter race circiut and I know for fact that the bmw will walk all over the audi on a dry day.

Nope I don't think so. A CSL will hold an RS4 but a standard M3 has no chance.

Sorry but lets compare apples with apples.
A standard RS4 laps the Nurburgring in 8.25
A standard M3 laps the Nurburgring in 8.22
A standard M3 CSL laps the Nurburgring in 7.50 - yes a full 35 seconds faster than a standard RS4.

Yes you can upgrade the RS4 and add more power, better brakes, suspension e.t.c but thats hardly comparing like with like. Furthermore you can do the same to the CSL by changing the brakes for AP, KW suspension, race cats etc. If you do this then a CSL is as fast as if not faster than the latest GT3 RS and the RS4 would'nt get anywhere near it on a circuit.

[zeke]

All of this test are perform at sea level or just above it, but if you put any of this cars, racing in an altitude above 1,500 mts. the diference between them is will be huge. That´s why in Mexico City (2,250 mts above sea level) the only cars that work are the turbos and the supercharged. Here one RS4 can out run all of the cars (lambos, ferraris,Viper,Corvette) except for the Porshe 911 biturbo. So I don´t think the new RS4 B7 will work for me.

Cheers

[FrankC]

Both have similar times around the ring but stick them onto a shorter race circiut and I know for fact that the bmw will walk all over the audi on a dry day.

Nope I don't think so. A CSL will hold an RS4 but a standard M3 has no chance.

Sorry but lets compare apples with apples.
A standard RS4 laps the Nurburgring in 8.25
A standard M3 laps the Nurburgring in 8.22
A standard M3 CSL laps the Nurburgring in 7.50 - yes a full 35 seconds faster than a standard RS4.

Yes you can upgrade the RS4 and add more power, better brakes, suspension e.t.c but thats hardly comparing like with like. Furthermore you can do the same to the CSL by changing the brakes for AP, KW suspension, race cats etc. If you do this then a CSL is as fast as if not faster than the latest GT3 RS and the RS4 would'nt get anywhere near it on a circuit.

Cant argue with the figures above,the CSL is one very serious bit of kit,the fact that it weighs next to nothing compared to the RS4s 1620 kg and the new RS4 1650 kg does not surprise it tears round the ring much quicker.The CSL gets round quicker than both the Lambo Gallardo and the 911 turbo(996)

Out of interest what does the CSL weigh? 1400kg near the mark?
Cheers fc

[scillyisles]

Frankc (or RS42M3 on bm3w )
Good guess - the BMW figures for a CSL are 1385Kg which includes a 90% full fuel tank and driver.

'Ring times from Sport Auto.

03/1997 BMW M3 SMG E36 - 8:35
04/1997 Porsche Boxster - 8:54
05/1997 AMG Mercedes SLK 230 Kompressor - 9:07
06/1997 Ferrari F355 - 8:18
07/1997 Chevrolet Corvette C5 - 8:40
08/1997 Honda NSX - 8:38
09/1997 BMW M Roadster - 8:32
10/1997 Chrysler Viper GTS - 8:10
11/1997 AC Schnitzer BMW CLS III - 8:16
12/1997 Lamborghini Diablo SV - 8:09
01/1998 Porsche 996 991 Carrera - 8:17
03/1998 Mercedes-Benz C43 AMG - 8:51
04/1998 Alpina B10 3.2 - 8:50
05/1998 Lotec Porsche 911 Turbo - 7:57
06/1998 Ferrari 550 Maranello - 8:07
07/1998 Jaguar XKR Coupé - 8:49
08/1998 Audi S4 - 8:42
09/1998 Mercedes CLK 430 - 8:52
10/1998 BMW M Coupé - 8:22
11/1998 Audi TT 1.8 T quattro - 8:49
12/1998 Brabus Mercdes CLK 5.8 - 8:38
02/1999 Porsche 911 GT3 Cup - 7:49
03/1999 BMW M5 E39 - 8:28
04/1999 Callaway C12 Coupé - 8:25
05/1999 Lotus Esprit Sport 350 - 8:13
06/1999 Audi S3 - 8:41
07/1999 BMW Alpina B3 3.3 - 8:36
08/1999 Porsche 911 GT3 - 8:03
09/1999 Aston Martin DB7 Vantage - 8:41
10/1999 Ferrari 360 Modena - 8:09
11/1999 Mitsubishi Carisma GT EVO VI - 8:25
12/1999 Porsche Boxster S - 8:32
01/2000 Honda S 2000 - 8:39
03/2000 Subaru Impreza GT Turbo - 8:37
04/2000 Volkswagen Golf V6 4motion - 9:09
05/2000 Mercedes CLK 55 AMG - 8:29
06/2000 Porsche 996 911 turbo - 7:56
07/2000 Lamborghini Diablo GT - 8:04
08/2000 BMW Z8 - 8:18
09/2000 Maserati 3200 GT - 8:37
10/2000 Audi RS4 - 8:25
11/2000 Lotus Exige - 8:52
12/2000 BMW M3 E46 - 8:22
02/2001 Porsche 996 Carrera 4 - 8:23
03/2001 Donkervoort D8 180R - 8:10
04/2001 BMW Z3 Coupé 3.0i - 8:34
05/2001 Mercedes SLK 32 AMG - 8:26
06/2001 Porsche 996 GT2 - 7:46
07/2001 Renault Clio Sport V6 - 8:49
08/2001 Tech-Art Prosche GT street - 7:43
09/2001 Mercedes C32 AMG - 8:37
10/2001 Porsche 996 911 Carrera (facelift) - 8:17
11/2001 Honda Civic Type-R - 8:47
12/2001 Mercedes SL 500 - 8:38
01/2002 Volkswagen Golf GTI - 8:54
02/2002 Brabus Mercedes C V8 Coupé - 8:35
04/2002 Mercedes SL 55 AMG - 8:12
05/2002 Alfa Romeo 156 GTA - 8:51
06/2002 Lamborghini Murciélago - 7:50
07/2002 Pagani Zonda S - 7:44
08/2002 Honda NSX-R - 8:09
09/2002 Audi RS6 - 8:20
10/2002 Maserati Coupé Cambiocorsa - 8:30
11/2002 Mitsubishi Carisma GT EVO VII - 8:25
12/2002 Ferrari 575M Maranello - 8:05
01/2003 Aston Martin V12 Vanquish - 8:17
02/2003 Volkswagen Golf R32 - 8:37
03/2003 Porsche Boxster (facelift) - 8:36
04/2003 Morgan Aero 8 - 8:39
05/2003 BMW Z4 3.0 SMG - 8:32
06/2003 Porsche 996 GT3 (facelift) - 7:54
07/2003 Aston Martin DB7 GT - 8:23
08/2003 BMW M3 CSL - 7:50
09/2003 Chevrolet Corvette C5 Com. Edition - 8:18
10/2003 Nissan 350Z - 8:26
11/2003 Audi S4 Avant - 8:29
12/2003 Lamborghini Gallardo - 7:52
01/2004 Porsche Carrera GT - 7:40 (wet track, later 7:32.44)
02/2004 Ferrari Challenge Stradale - 7:56
03/2004 Porsche 911 GT3 RS - 7:47
04/2004 Opel Speedster Turbo - 8:34
05/2004 Subaru Impreza WRX STi - 8:24
06/2004 Mercedes SLR McLaren - 7:52
07/2004 Mercedes C55 AMG - 8:22
08/2004 Lotus Exige - 8:32
09/2004 Mini Cooper S Works - 8:55
10/2004 Dodge Viper SRT/10 - 8:13
11/2004 Aston Martin DB9 - 8:16
12/2004 BMW M5 E60 - 8:13

All done by the same driver, apparently.

[FrankC]

Kind of puts Audis weight reduction boasts into perspective when you see what BMW have achieved

1385kg with driver and a full tank(90%).......so what would the B7 RS4 weigh in at with a driver and same amount fuel 1760 kg ish???
I doubt very much if it will get near the CSL time,and lets get this straight Audi see this as a car suitable for the track,so the M3 CSL is direct competion!!!

Cheers fc

[scillyisles]

Audi might see it as a direct competitor to the CSL but I don't think the buyers will.
Afterall, the CSL was a limited production special of which only 422 came to the UK out of a total worldwide production of 1500 or so. Audi does'nt seem to have any plans to limit production of th RS4 and it does'nt really have any of the special features of the CSL such as a carbon fibre roof.

[TarmacTerrorist]

And the beautiful interior the csl got over the standard m3, not just a set of seats and steering wheel.

[s4aero]

While times at The 'ring, 0-62kph times, slalom times and skidpad g's are germain to the comparison of cars, they certainly don't tell the whole story. I couldn't care less if this bimmer or that vette has a faster track time. I don't track my cars.

I drive to work and to the store. Sometimes I take the long way home so I can play with a few more twisties before I park for the night. I get off the freeway 100 miles before I should so I can enjoy the fall colors and some of the best stretches of two-lane blacktop I know. Sometimes I get to play with some kid in a Mustang or a WRX. Ususally I win. But if I don't, it doesn't impune my manhood or implicate my decision to buy the S. (BTW - that's the way I play golf, too)

Obviously, we all like fast cars. If we didn't we wouldn't be here. We wouldn't have an S or an RS. But, if speed were the only issue, we probably wouldn't be here either. We could buy faster cars. Some are more expensive and some are less expenssive. Hell, we could build a kit that will do 0-62 in less than 4.0 sec and do it for less than $30K US. (I still want to do that before I die).

But as I said, speed, and the various measures thereof are only part of the story.

To me, the Audi has a certain 'j'ne sais quoi' that most cars just can't duplicate. There's an exclusivity - an independence that the Audi delivers in spades. It's not somebody else's M, or heaven forbid - a G35.

To me it's simple - buy the car you want. If it has to be the fasted, biggest, smallest, reddest, whateverest - buy that car. I did - in fact, both of my cars (2001.5 S4, and 2003 SAAB 9-5 Aero) are exactly what I want.

So is the new B7 - RS4.

For me, it was love at first sight. I think it's absolutely gorgeous without the rice factor or ostentacious bling of so many cars that pretend to be timeless. Ten years from now it will still look good.

Only the most astute enthusiasts will have any idea what it is. There's my requisite exclusivity factor.

It's plenty fast enough (too fast if you ask my wife).

It's exactly what I want.

I'm on the allocation wait list. Spring 2006 won't get here fast enough for me!

[Golich]

I agree with S4areo. Its the complete package I'm after. I guess I'll reserve my final judgement on the new RS for my first test drive. However, somewhat thankfully, I don't have that, 'GOT TO HAVE IT!' feel from the pics, but then pics can be sooo decieving.

Interesting compilation of times. I'm amazed at the small difference in times for such a long track.

[rs4imola]

Only 2 questions about this topic!!!
Which kind of engine do you prefer TURBOS or NO TURBOS?
and Which place do you drive more your car in circuit or in roads, big lines, autobans?
In my personal opinion for tracks is better Porsche or Ferreri, never the pseudo sports cars
RS4 B5 WITH TUINING IS "the king of highway speeds"
and RS4 B7 will be?

[Nordschleife]

It is really easy to forget that the tyres make all the difference to lap times. The discussion here is about differences whichj are less than the differences which arise from changing to optimal 'road legal' track tyres. My friends with M3 CSLs have 3 sets of wheels - winter, spring & autumn, and summer. The summer tyres are lethal out of season and not even much good on wet roads. These are what the car is shipped with ex-factory. If you substitued these tyres for those which the Porsche Turbo and Lamborghini Gallardo have as standard, the relative ranking would change. This is especially true at the Ring as the M3 CSL is lacking in the top end on such a high speed circuit.