New M3 v RS4

[alex_123_fra]

Not wishing to be inflammatory but the E46 M3 was hugely overrated in my view. It was:

Not particularly fast
Not particularly good handling-wise
Not particularly comfortable
Not particularly well made
Quite tricky in the wet even with good tyres
Common

The CSL fixed the performance and handling problems but left the car hopelessly impractical.

The new one may be a better overall car but I have a feeling its direction and purpose has been diluted by BMW's desire to make it appeal to the masses. No doubt it will be fast, but I am willing to bet money it won't be much faster than the old one around a track...being heavier and having apparently rubbish steering (according to the early motoring journo reviews). It will need a CSL version to sort out performance/handling again.

What baffles me more than anything is how BMW have made an M3 coupe weigh MORE than the RS4 saloon!!! This is despite banging on about how the new V8 is 25 kg lighter than the old straight six M engine. Where is the fat coming from??!?

[jackwood]

Where is the fat coming from??!?

Probably from increased sound-proofing, and stronger impact cage.

You have to wonder though. With a carbon fibre roof and that lighter motor, where does all those extra KG really go? Surely soundproofing is light, and they must be able to design a stronger cage without adding that much weight?

Maybe they make it that heavy on purpose so they can sell you a "Wow, this is 200kg lighter for only £20k more" CSL version

Jack

[sykotoy]

Exactly, I wouldn't push the RS4 on a twisty road in the rain either, horribly understeery on some bends and very little information from the front end due to artificial steering. At 8/10ths, an RWD car is just as easy to drive.

after adding f/rear sway bars, hardly any oversteer

[mrdeli]

What baffles me more than anything is how BMW have made an M3 coupe weigh MORE than the RS4 saloon!!! This is despite banging on about how the new V8 is 25 kg lighter than the old straight six M engine. Where is the fat coming from??!?

It doesn't - audi just choose to weight their cars without fluids and driver. BMW include these fairly necessary items

[sykotoy]

Its so funny on M3Post they are such knobs, they only quote usa rs4 kg, they not interested that there is a whole world out there, lol . its amazing that 2 years on the rs4 holds its own , but its not just performance for me, the interior is just stunning and exterior much more aggresive the new m3, its a monster, as far as looks its owns the m3 huge time!.. im thinking the m3 ers should be waiting for the rs5, muhahahahhahaha

[audijohn]

What baffles me more than anything is how BMW have made an M3 coupe weigh MORE than the RS4 saloon!!! This is despite banging on about how the new V8 is 25 kg lighter than the old straight six M engine. Where is the fat coming from??!?

It doesn't - audi just choose to weight their cars without fluids and driver. BMW include these fairly necessary items

Where are the weights posted, I can't find weights for the M3. S5??.

[Wacko]

[sorry duplicate post]

[Wacko]

What baffles me more than anything is how BMW have made an M3 coupe weigh MORE than the RS4 saloon!!! This is despite banging on about how the new V8 is 25 kg lighter than the old straight six M engine. Where is the fat coming from??!?

Don't be baffled - read the previous posts on this thread: It is not heavier! RS4, like all Audis, are quoted in unladen, M3, like all BMWs, in curb. M3 is in fact materially lighter, has a lower COG and has far less transmission loss (RS4 is quoted as 17%, 335i is 7%).

[W8PMC]

If correct about unladen/curb, then M3 is about 70KG lighter than the RS4 which i'd have assumed anyhow as it's a slightly smaller car with 2 fewer doors & the CF roof.

[alex_123_fra]

What baffles me more than anything is how BMW have made an M3 coupe weigh MORE than the RS4 saloon!!! This is despite banging on about how the new V8 is 25 kg lighter than the old straight six M engine. Where is the fat coming from??!?

It doesn't - audi just choose to weight their cars without fluids and driver. BMW include these fairly necessary items

If you are baffled, I suggest you read the rest of this thread: It is not heavier! RS4, like all Audis, are quoted in unladen, M3, like all BMWs, in curb. M3 is in fact materially lighter.

Ok, I take that point...I didn't know. But if I'm to assume the curb weight is calculated with fluids such as petrol, oil, coolant etc, the RS4 is at least 100kg more in equivalent terms. Given that we are comparing a saloon to a coupe which has a carbon fibre roof, I still feel BMW have not really tried hard enough to keep the weight of the new M3 down. Added insult to injury is the fact that the RS4 is 4WD which in itself adds a lot to the weight.

Added to all the above, given the new M3's apparent "lightness", it is damn slow compared to a heavier saloon car with more transmission losses .

Taking all factors into consideration, BMW have ballsed up in my view....and they've had this car in development for an absolute eternity. Even with the benefit of seeing what audi could do (with the B7 RS4), they still cant touch it.

[audijohn]

What baffles me more than anything is how BMW have made an M3 coupe weigh MORE than the RS4 saloon!!! This is despite banging on about how the new V8 is 25 kg lighter than the old straight six M engine. Where is the fat coming from??!?

It doesn't - audi just choose to weight their cars without fluids and driver. BMW include these fairly necessary items

If you are baffled, I suggest you read the rest of this thread: It is not heavier! RS4, like all Audis, are quoted in unladen, M3, like all BMWs, in curb. M3 is in fact materially lighter.

Ok, I take that point...I didn't know. But if I'm to assume the curb weight is calculated with fluids such as petrol, oil, coolant etc, the RS4 is at least 100kg more in equivalent terms. Given that we are comparing a saloon to a coupe which has a carbon fibre roof, I still feel BMW have not really tried hard enough to keep the weight of the new M3 down. Added insult to injury is the fact that the RS4 is 4WD which in itself adds a lot to the weight.

Added to all the above, given the new M3's apparent "lightness", it is damn slow compared to a heavier saloon car with more transmission losses .

Taking all factors into consideration, BMW have ballsed up in my view....and they've had this car in development for an absolute eternity. Even with the benefit of seeing what audi could do (with the B7 RS4), they still cant touch it.

BMW, have on th QT, found Audi taking centre stage, this they don't like, the New M3 is aimed at a new market, a mass prodution car market, If it was a handfull for the average Joe, They will not sell as many as they intend.

[RS4-Junkie]

Get a RS4 Avant for all Day driving an a CSL for the Track Performance. If you don't need a track tool or the higher capacity of the Avant, get a Saloon. It is as fast as an M390 (Limo) which will be proven in a few months. The M392 Coupe will be slightly faster on the straight line, mostly above 120mph because better aerodynamics, less weight and RWD. But on the road, especially on narrow & bad tarmacs, the RS4 will be faster. Proven fact, because it is faster than then M560 with its RWD in the corners and ceramic brakes do a great job the RS4.

The most fun I ever had was driving a M346CSL, which is a different league then any RS4. Its compareable to a Ferrari 360 Challenge Stradale, but much cheaper. Just replace the CSL seats to real fitting Recaros and you have the perfect fun coupe for the sunny days.

[RussianM3_dude]

BMW score such a homw run with the previous car, they were at a loss as to where to take it from there. I still think they should have developped a new 3.4L I6 with 360hp and tried harder at loosing weight, while a hotter version of the 335, the 335iS or something would have filled the niche the new M3 is aimed at now.

[RS4-Junkie]

This will be deployed by ALPINA

[audijohn]

AutoCar are quoting 1585Kg weight for the New M3, It is slow for the weight.