...how long before u start to mod

[charlesdash]

Yeh Right John, let's not f about with sour grapes. Those of us who have been there since the start and bought the tee-shirt, know the score.

We know what mods you made to your B5 and the end results..., (driver ability is the end of all argument ) and although I appreciate your propensity for Stutgarts finest, are you seriously saying that the reviews are really that mis-guided. Or are you seeking a dispute with some of our newer brethren just for the sake of it!!!

[MattC]

even with 440bhp its still very average
and i dont think its just an exhaust
jr

I have owned three our four RS4`s and a couple of RS6`s and still believe the RS4 is the best RS model ever produced. I already have my new RS4 and at 420 BHP its fun but does not have B5 kick, it sounds great, and handles 100% better than the old B5. But a few quid and a little trip to Kim Collins got you a 420 BHP B5-RS4 which did 0-60 in 4 seconds. So I guess the B7 is a step backwards on power even if it improves on other things. The real proof will be when all the mods start rolling of the line.

I can see both sides. John, are you replacing the B5 with a B7??

[Riz_RS4]

He doesnt have a RS4.... hes moved onto a Porsche GT3

Riz

[DuncS3]

Yep, and I dont think we are going to say the RS4 handles better than a GT3 - so JRs input may be valid (although i never saw his review )- The magazine reviews say the RS is the best handling Audi, and rightly praise the car, but they dont say its the best handling car out there.

Dunc

[charlesdash]

Matt, I don't deny that a trip to Kim, a GMBH handling pack, full Porsche GT brake kit, short shift and full Miltek really produced a sensationally fast piece of kit, (which is what my B5 ended up with, and I think was similar to JR's,) but even when I had spent a serious amount of cash on the car, I nearly always preferred to take my 993 Carrera 2 if I didn't have the family in tow and there was any driving other than motorway involved.

My beef with JR regarding this and it is a question to you, is how can you rate the B5 as a drivers car? Yes it had whopping turbos that felt like you were attached to saturn 5, but that never made it a drivers car. It's ability to relay information to the driver with the degree of accuracy of M3's or Porsche's I have owned was not in the same league.

And I guess that this for me is the crucial question, is the standard B7 a more focused and reliable drivers car that relays info back to the driver and thus enables the driver to place the car with more accuracy and drive on the limit with more fluidity than the standard/tuned B5 RS4?

[harry]

Eh...my dad can run faster than any of yours!

[harry]

Regarding mods for the B7 was speaking to Kim today and as Brooner said before it seems the V8 has nowhere near the amount of flexibility with regards stage upgrades as the B5 no stage I,II,III - simply supercharged or not-supercharged that is the question plus exhaust of course.

Not cheap either....

[EuroSag]

Just my opinion (as he puts on the flack-jacket).

But..... the drivetrain and engine in a B5 are based on 90's technology, a B7 is based on up-to-date technology and the engine alone is at the very fore-front of automotive engine design. The drivetrain in the B7 has been built with over 20 years of Audi's 4wd experience harnessed into it and the new front/rear torque split is so much better than any previous quattro configuration.

When Audi engineer a car, they take into consideration power, reliability, safety, running costs and durability/longevity. Audi programmed the B5's standard ecu based on the strength/reliability of many other vital components such as gearbox, clutch, drivetrain, brakes, etc. If cranking up the power did not adversely affect other area's of the car, then Audi could and would easily do it at the factory. And if its because of new-car emissions regulations, then they could do like Subaru do - making the prodrive performance pack an option 'after' registration.

For the record, I have driven over 5,000 km's in a LHD 400bhp+ B5, complete with Porsche brakes, etc and I have been fortunate enough to drive a standard early production LHD B7 over 1,000 km's. For me, they are worlds apart. They both have good points and bad points, but for me the B7 was a far better balanced 'drivers' car. Don't get me wrong, the B5 was super-fast and I definitely had some fun in it!, but in my opinion, it was no where near as communicative as a B7 and felt vague in comparison.

I guess that if a modified B5 is so much better than a new B7, then surely Audi would have saved themselves shed-loads of cash and simply dusted off the old tooling for the B5, given it a mild facelift and started producing it again, albeit with a few mods here and there?

Finally, I'm no rich mug and if a modded B5 was so much better than a std B7, then I would save myself £20k and buy a B5. As it stands, other respected drivers don't think it is, and more importantly, I don't think it is. As such, I'm putting my money where my mouth is and spending £55k on a new B7.

[harry]

a B7 is based on up-to-date technology and the engine alone is at the very fore-front of automotive engine design. The drivetrain in the B7 has been built with over 20 years of Audi's 4wd experience harnessed into it and the new front/rear torque split is so much better than any previous quattro configuration.

Considering this, other new comfort, safety and technological advances that make up the total package of the new RS4, I'm now seriously considering ordering an Avant.

Audi programmed the B5's standard ecu based on the strength/reliability of many other vital components such as gearbox, clutch, drivetrain, brakes, etc. If cranking up the power did not adversely affect other area's of the car, then Audi could and would easily do it at the factory.

I dont entirely agree with this point as this powerplant was "dumbed down" by restrictive ECU mapping at the factory with its true potential being reached but not necessarily breached through tested and sympathetic performance enhancements.

Witht the new RS series it seems Audi have really stood back and taken a good look at themselves and their ability to delive the total package, and may have even taken on board and actioned alot of the feedback they have received from members of this forum and others. As opposed to delivering an RS version at the end of a model run they are commiting to their marketing slogan and delivering technological excellence early to enhance the whole brand image and positioning. With the B7 they have in effect cut out the middleman i.e the tuning houses so more and more cars will roll off the production line and stay on the road as they were designed on paper.

[PhilT]

I'm no rich mug and if a modded B5 was so much better than a std B7, then I would save myself £20k and buy a B5. As it stands, other respected drivers don't think it is, and more importantly, I don't think it is. As such, I'm putting my money where my mouth is and spending £55k on a new B7.

Well, I think you're wrong. Having had my B5 from new I'm leaning towards keeping the B5 when you look at this equation:

B7 RS4 ~ B5 RS4 + Clio 182 Cup/Trophy + Radical

My Mrs doesn't like the B7 RS4 Avant (Mine is ordered for July 2007), and with the R8 on the way..... Who knows what could happen.

It is not correct to assume that the B7 is a direct replacement for the B5. In standard form the B7 may handle better, but the B5 with a bit of fettling here and there is comparable and will always be the original RS4.

[Riz_RS4]

but the B5 with a bit of fettling here and there is comparable and will always be the original RS4.

Yep, abit of fettling... suspension, exhaust, chip, brakes, seats? what else mmmmm

Out of the box the B7 RS4 is fine for me no modding required.

Everybody has their own opinions and to be honest the B5 RS4 still looks the biz!

Not matter which "RS" car you buy, I think they give all their owners the grin factor and the feel good factor, a sense of presence! Hard to put into words really, Im quite a car nut and felt the same about my R32 and S3, always made me feel good and bring a grin to my face when driving them.....

I personally love N/A engines after having a R32......

Like I said, each to their own...... some love the B7 shape and some hate it.... it doesnt mean that either the B5 or B7 are bad.

*group hug*

Riz

[Ruical]

My Mrs doesn't like the B7 RS4 Avant

Glad to see your still wearing the trousers, Phil hee-hee!

LBTPSWB

[EuroSag]

Well, I think you're wrong. Having had my B5 from new I'm leaning towards keeping the B5 when you look at this equation:

B7 RS4 ~ B5 RS4 + Clio 182 Cup/Trophy + Radical

Hmmm, when you put it like that