Argon Creative

[Surrey Sam]

Wow...I was expecting some proper wonky weave but that is well beyond that, truely shocking products - if you can even call them that!!!

[Audi Pardner]

Interesting reading, and another potential customer here who now won't be.

As a matter of interest, are there any other firms that make good CF parts for 'our' cars?

[Carbon Goodies]

Wow that was close nearly ordered some of that

See this 1 comment!! Just goes to show argon should have given his money back
They are missing out on sales already, and with there name in tatters on this forum
Bet carbon goodies is hiding under his desk, not his fault obviously,bet he regrets using them, not many more sales on this forum until the dust settles

No I'm not hiding but I'm also not commenting on specifics until I have a bit more information.

The only thing I will say is that street parts which are nice and shiney are not intended for motorsport use. Usually motorsport parts are A LOT more expensive and are not particularly pretty and the weave generally isn't particularly straight on them. They are usually made from pre preg carbon and made in an autoclave and are generally not lacquered.

When street parts are used for motorsport, this type of thing tends to happen. That's not a fault of the part as such as it's used outside of it's intended purpose which it was designed.

Also for the record, I don't regret using Argon. Although there has clearly been issues here, namely with some of the items not being correct in the first place and needing to be sent back, as a general rule they are a great company who make some fantastic items.

Also there is very little else available for the RS4.

[RIV]

Maybe they should give up making parts for the engine bay if they don't guarantee it will last longer than a few weeks, it's a shame as the badges I orderd were very good, apart from the adhesive pads on the rear rings,those parts they sent out to the op should never have left the workshop, very poor finish, I think they need to take on less work if they can't keep to a high standard, or employ more people to meet demand, something wrong or we wouldn't be having these threads on long delays and quality issues

[Carbon Goodies]

Maybe they should give up making parts for the engine bay if they don't guarantee it will last longer than a few weeks, it's a shame as the badges I orderd were very good, apart from the adhesive pads on the rear rings,those parts they sent out to the op should never have left the workshop, very poor finish, I think they need to take on less work if they can't keep to a high standard, or employ more people to meet demand, something wrong or we wouldn't be having these threads on long delays and quality issues

It's looking likely that there will be no more engine bay bits in the future. For normal use they should be fine but several laps of the Nurburgring at speeds of 180mph is far too extreme for street parts.

[Surrey Sam]

What a load of BS...

The OEM carbon engine bay parts could do all year long at 180mph down the autobahns without failing. There is no excuse for shoddy workmanship and inferior production processes.

[Carbon Goodies]

What a load of BS...

The OEM carbon engine bay parts could do all year long at 180mph down the autobahns without failing. There is no excuse for shoddy workmanship and inferior production processes.

The OEM parts are developed with a tremendous amount of money being spent on R&D ad they cost a lot more than aftermarket parts.

As I've said as a result of this issue it's looking likely that there will be no more engine bay parts.

[Rick_RS4]

engine bay bits are full carbon, not skinned like argon Sam, but agree its bullshit those parts look rushed to me.

about a year ago they were doing top notch work didnt seem too busy and got the products out there, now on that good rep they are flat out overworked and making that mess like above, ok the temp would split the parts but the runs in the clear are just shoddy,

i know you wanted it all for the ring but maybe not go balls deep then you would have seen for yourself and only spent a fraction.

as for your money back you should have it, they should have retail and developed it over time, testing in all weathers etc

now for you ha ha, your splitter fell off? it needs massive bolts those things from argon are huge, i used 6 m8 bolts and large washers for mine,

what did you use?

[Carbon Goodies]

engine bay bits are full carbon, not skinned like argon Sam, but agree its bullshit those parts look rushed to me.

about a year ago they were doing top notch work didnt seem too busy and got the products out there, now on that good rep they are flat out overworked and making that mess like above, ok the temp would split the parts but the runs in the clear are just shoddy,

i know you wanted it all for the ring but maybe not go balls deep then you would have seen for yourself and only spent a fraction.

as for your money back you should have it, they should have retail and developed it over time, testing in all weathers etc

now for you ha ha, your splitter fell off? it needs massive bolts those things from argon are huge, i used 6 m8 bolts and large washers for mine,

what did you use?

Only the rain guard is skinned as far as I'm aware. All of the other parts are full carbon but I'm pretty sure they are made using resin infusion.

Agreed the parts with the runs etc should never have been sent out and QC had been missed but they did address that and sorted it.

[Surrey Sam]

What a load of BS...

The OEM carbon engine bay parts could do all year long at 180mph down the autobahns without failing. There is no excuse for shoddy workmanship and inferior production processes.

The OEM parts are developed with a tremendous amount of money being spent on R&D ad they cost a lot more than aftermarket parts.

As I've said as a result of this issue it's looking likely that there will be no more engine bay parts.

Not really. Audi chose to do it the right way from the beginning, wet laying is crap and always will be. Pre-impregnated and an autoclave maybe a little more expensive but is a far superior end product which is ultimately fit for purpose.

[neilparf]

Sorry Carbon Creative. Those parts should never have left Argon, and in anyway if they are not fit for use at 180mph on an autobahn then the products should arrive with a note inside caveating that.

None of those parts should have left Argon and if they did, Argon should have highlighted the inferior result to Ross before taking his money and mention that these parts on a whole will look crap. It's called bridging the gap between what you supply and client expectancy.

Your defence in any way for Argon has no place here. The products are inferior and if that's what they deem fit for the money they took off Ross then they should've highlighted that...

[RossDagley]

Argon knew beforehand they were going to be used on a car that was going to the 'ring and supplied the parts without any issues or comments regarding heat, other than "the poor fit will improve with time and the heat from the engine".

Carbon creative. Maybe you've missed the part in my post where I explained why the rain tray has delaminated. Because it was warped from supply (as they all are to some extent by argon own admission) where it was twisted up it touched the bonnet. When forced flat with the bonnet closed, it twisted the tray in a way that put pressure on the skin forcing the skin and tray apart. This de lamination would have happened on any temperature engine because of the poor build.

Argon will have the opportunity to use the "nurburgring defence" if it comes to it, if they continue to refuse a refund going forward.

As for a speed limit, I'm not sure that's of any relevance to parts in the engine bay? Either way we're all in cars that are capable of 160mph from the factory (where this 180mph has come from I don't know - especially ON the ring. Clearly raised by someone who's never driven the ring!) - and these are parts designed and built specifically for this car. I didn't get a warning that said "please restrict your car to X speed" when I bought these and can't see any mention of that in the brochure or online. I suspect this is another thing that's being exaggerated to try and justify the unjustifiable.

[Carbon Goodies]

Ok guys, when you buy motorsport parts you don't get a warranty, that's how the industry works for motorsport. When you take your car on a track, you are then taking part in motorsport which the parts were never designed to do as the temperatures generated on track are much higher than normal use, even on an autobahn doing 180mph. At the end of the day it is lacquer on top of carbon fibre and this will crack at very high temperatures, when for instance used on track.

I do agree that the parts with runs on should never have gone out to the customer and so do Argon, hence them sorting it out to the customers satisfaction. This type of thing tends to happen when a company is very busy and they have people constantly badgering them to get the parts to them. They did miss QC and were then sorted for the customer under warranty, Argon never argued about that. It does seem a little unfair posting those photos after that particular issue has been sorted.

Argon have also offered to repair or replace the parts free of charge for the customer, even after they have been used for motorsport, I'm not sure that the customer has mentioned this. They have not totally refused to do anything, they have just refused a full refund as the parts have been used for motorsport which has caused the damage.

It's also not really feasible to start putting disclaimers on everyting for every eventuality. It's not really a point of don't go over xxxmph, more a point of if they are exposed to a very hot engine for a prolonged period of time it is going to affect the finish due to the heat generated during motorsport.

As a result of this, Argon has now withdrawn all engine bay products from sale as it's not possible to guarantee against being used for motorsport.

On a side note, who is Carbon Creative?

I'm not going to get into an argument or big discussion over this though, I've had no direct involvement in the process, I'm just giving my views as I generally see both side in situations such as this.

[HYFR]

The car was not used for Motorsport. It didn't even go on a track day. It drove on legal roads at legal speeds. It's a high performance V8. If the products are not suitable for this type of vehicle driven on legal roads at legal speeds then they should either come with a disclaimer or not sold at all.

How do you think Audi would get on with their Carbon Engine bay in the R8 if they said it should be removed prior to joining the Autobahn?!?

We've already established the RS 4 cannot reach 180MPH

[RossDagley]

Argon have also offered to repair or replace the parts free of charge for the customer, even after they have been used for motorsport, I'm not sure that the customer has mentioned this. They have not totally refused to do anything, they have just refused a full refund as the parts have been used for motorsport which has caused the damage.

That's because that's utter rubbish. I've received no such offer.

I'm not going to get into an argument or big discussion over this though, I've had no direct involvement in the process, I'm just giving my views as I generally see both side in situations such as this.

Then I would respectfully suggest you stay out of it - you have a biased interest being a supplier, and clearly have been misinformed on several points.