B7 RS4: more trouble than it's worth

[MartayMcFly]

Any confidence I had in Aberdeen Audi service dept that was built by them being superstars squeezing in my MOT re-test as a 'walk in' the day I was due offshore, was then completely demolished when I went back for the service a few weeks later (couldn't book them together as I needed the MOT asap and there weren't service booking slots) and asked them to check the auto-levelling headlights.

The lights had been levelling way too high, and as I result I couldn't use the car at night without blinding everyone on the road. They gave it back saying they'd not found any error codes so just reset the system, and rechecked it all. Happy day (not plural). The next night though, same thing - lights shining up in the sky rather than down on the road.

Luckily, my car was getting lowered that week, so asked my mechanic/fitter buddy to have a look at the lights too. When I went out to pick up the car he said one of the levelling sensors wasn't connected on the back, so he'd clipped it back in place. Sorted. 5 minute job that surely should have been the first place Audi looked. Instead of just plugging in the diagnostic machine, maybe have a look at the one thing I asked them to check? Nope. Not Audi technicians. And then hand back the car, having effectively done nothing, saying they'd checked it over? Sure, as long as there's no fault code, how could it be broken?

Useless. They also stuck 20x 1/2 litre bottles of oil on the ticket despite me telling them there were 3x 4l bottles in the boot (which they'd used). Not a huge deal, the service assistant guy spotted it straight away and took it off.

Moral of the story - Audi RS = great cars, Audi Service = night and day better than they used to be, Audi Technicians = bloody useless. I wonder what value the FASH really has when it likely means they've just cleared the fault codes?

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[Coaster]

The car has left me with the feeling that Audi are out of their depth with the RS4.

The problem you had was a poor/bad/incompetent DEALER, not with AUDI - this problem happens with most (all?) car brands, so I think it's very unfair of you to say the problem is with either Audi or the RS4.

Having said that, I do feel for you - owning an RS4 IS a great pleasure (I've owned mine for over 7+ years and have no intention of selling it). When I found that the local dealers were not giving me the quality of service I expected I found a competent local independent (I realised the problem was the dealer not the car or Audi).

No doubt these cars can be great but my feeling is that there are several unresolved weak points and these are predominantly mechanical issues; brake judder, various clutch issues, DRC carbon etc. It's not just the dealers that spend most of their time looking at 2.0TDis; Audi GmBh probably do as well.

[PetrolDave]

5 minute job that surely should have been the first place Audi looked. Instead of just plugging in the diagnostic machine, maybe have a look at the one thing I asked them to check? Nope. Not Audi technicians.

That's a great illustration of what I was talking about - most garage now do NOT employ car mechanics, they employ "keyboard jockeys" who can't do anything if the diagnostics don't tell them exactly what to do.

This is where independents score - most of them are, and employ, car MECHANICS - so they actually find and fix things by using the Mark 1 eyeball and not just the diagnostics screen.

[Coaster]

The problem is that I paid through the nose buying the car from an Audi dealer for peace of mind. It would have cost a lot of money to put right the list of issues with that car even with an independent. With hindsight I wouldn't do that again but when the right car comes up with the right spec one has little choice where to buy from.

[PetrolDave]

No doubt these cars can be great but my feeling is that there are several unresolved weak points and these are predominantly mechanical issues; brake judder, various clutch issues, DRC carbon etc. It's not just the dealers that spend most of their time looking at 2.0TDis; Audi GmBh probably do as well.

Remember these cars, at least until the B7, were limited run models so yes they won't have the same degree of engineering rigour applied that more mainstream models will have. They are SPECIAL models for enthusiasts, and it seems that you expect the same degree of engineering and testing as mainstream models - well dream on, the economics of limited run models means that will never be the case.

Looking at the items you mention:

- brake judder; I've driven 64k+ miles and NEVER experienced brake judder. If you follow the correct procedure then there is no problem with brake judder. The problem usually comes when owners don't follow the correct bedding-in procedure, which the large (over-sized?) brakes on the RS4 are more sensitive to than 'repmobiles'.

- various clutch issues; this is a large high-revving high output engine so the clutch will always struggle at times. Audi quickly sorted out their major howler (the too small return pipe) and the problems being seen now don't surprise me given the high mileages most cars have done (BTW I've just had to replace the clutch on my Citroen C1 at 33k miles - and I've done BETTER than most owners - so in that context the RS4 clutch problems are minimal).

- DRC; yes Audi screwed up on DRC. They didn't learn the lessons from the B5 and the C5 well enough and it took them too long to bring out a redesigned DRC - something they tacitly admitted by extending the warranty to 5 years in the UK.

- carbon; don't get me started on carbon. That carbon causes large power losses on the B7 is one the great urban myths of our time. AFAIK every case of large power loss when investigated properly has been down to a cause other than carbon, usually a vacuum leak (sometimes owner caused by disconnecting the exhaust valves and not plugging the pipes). When my car was on the dyno at MRC earlier this year it produced 397bhp, around 30bhp down on cars of similar mileage that HAVE been carbon cleaned. I challenge any 'mere mortal' to actually be able to detect the difference between 400 and 430bhp in real world driving.

That's a long answer, but to me it seems your expectations are unrealistic and your treatment of problems common to (and sometimes worse in) many cars as RS4 specific is unwarranted.

But you're entitled to your opinion...

[PetrolDave]

The problem is that I paid through the nose buying the car from an Audi dealer for peace of mind.

Well you obviously didn't do enough research on Audi owners websites (and not just RS specific ones) beforehand - where you would have read that there are many poor (and some terrible) Audi DEALERS out there, and that 'Audi Approved' is about as useful as a chocolate teapot.

Both those problems are DEALER caused, it's your attribution of the problems to Audi that I take most issue with.

[Graeme4130]

The problem is that I paid through the nose buying the car from an Audi dealer for peace of mind.

Well you obviously didn't do enough research on Audi owners websites (and not just RS specific ones) beforehand - where you would have read that there are many poor (and some terrible) Audi DEALERS out there, and that 'Audi Approved' is about as useful as a chocolate teapot.

Both those problems are DEALER caused, it's your attribution of the problems to Audi that I take most issue with.

I'll agree that 'Audi Approved Scheme' doesn't necessarily carry the reliability that you'd expect from the brand. However, when you buy approved though them, then you get the no quibble warranty, the value of which can easily outweigh the potential cost penalty of buying through a dealer.

I've seen the 160 point check that Audi carry out on all their used cars, and non of it is specific to RS4's, so there's no DRC, no vacuum checks, no exhaust valve checks etc etc. All these are common items that fail on these cars. However, you would most likely not get those items checked specifically should you buy your car though any other form of garage (bar a specialist, which I think there's not any that trade in S/RS branded cars specifically? Maybe Fontain?)

The long and the short of it is that people (previously myself included) will always be drawn towards the Audi dealer used cars, as they represent good value when it comes to peace of mind of getting them fixed if there is a problem.

The moral of the story is that there's good dealers and there's poor dealers, and if you're buying, try and buy from a decent one, or at least live near a decent one through which to get your warranty work completed

[jasonpaul]

I am sorry to here you had lot of issues with the car I have had mine for nearly 3 year and all has been well just the recall on the coil pack and check up on the drc all ok.
and just the normally wear on the parts and servicing cost on the car.

[TimDogg]

Coaster - sell yours back into trade then call Camberley and get them to source you another. Alternatively buy a B8 S4 and get it chipped to 420 bhp...MRC can do this for you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KfMY96v_Gc

[Coaster]

Thanks TimDogg. Nottingham was far enough away from where I live, Camberley is significantly further.

[TimDogg]

For me too unfortunately

[Awd4]

I think the title of this thread is unfair, although I can understand your frustration, the main culprits here are your dealer not the Rs4 - I have mine since summer 2007, done 64k miles from new and except for 2 shocks that had to be replaced (under DRC extended warranty), the oil cooler pipes, and the obvious brake pads and front disks - I had no worries whatsoever.
Having said that I drive the car over 100 miles to my chosen dealer in Dublin each year, bypassing about 10 main stealers whom I know probably would make a mess of it

[TonyHayers]

- various clutch issues; this is a large high-revving high output engine so the clutch will always struggle at times. Audi quickly sorted out their major howler (the too small return pipe) and the problems being seen now don't surprise me given the high mileages most cars have done (BTW I've just had to replace the clutch on my Citroen C1 at 33k miles - and I've done BETTER than most owners - so in that context the RS4 clutch problems are minimal).

Dave - can you give some more info on that. It sounds from what you said there that it was a recall or something? AFAIK there have been numerous part revisions but I don't know of anything further, could you expand on that pls.

[edge]

Sorry to hear about your troubles!

I too avoid the Stealers except for recall items and that’s about it. I had the DRC and oil coolers and coilpacks done by Audi before. They ask me to come in for the yearly free 200point check and the free wash which is fine, but its then just for them to hand me a quote for work that I won’t let them do.

I go to the indie that I got the car from and did for the last one too. They work on all kinds of serious cars down there and even build custom BMW for track use on the side. They cost less and in my experience are way more honest about what’s needed.

Audi quoted me a crazy price for front disks and pads and that was before fitting, I ended up getting them from Revolution in Newcastle(great price and service) and my indie fitted them and fully serviced the car for €200 euro less than the parts alone that Audi quoted me!

I know people like Audi FSH when they purchase, but anyone on here would know that stamp doesn’t mean that much.

[PetrolDave]

Audi quickly sorted out their major howler (the too small return pipe)

Dave - can you give some more info on that. It sounds from what you said there that it was a recall or something? AFAIK there have been numerous part revisions but I don't know of anything further, could you expand on that pls.

I'm talking early days here - 2006-2008-ish.

It was never a recall - recalls are only for safety issues and are arranged through VOSA - neither was if a formal Workshop Campaign, but if you were suffering problems with the clutch pedal not fully returning and causing clutch slip then if you mentioned it to a DECENT dealer who checked the Service Bulletins from Audi they would have seen that replacing the return pipe with a newer spec one was recommended and would be done under warranty.