Manual Carbon Clean - UPDATE - Engine's coming out

[Graeme4130]

Quick update ;
Just received a call from Audi saying they've taken the manifolds off and when they've started they've realise fits so bad they're going to be able to do a decent job of it through this way, so the engine's coming out and the heads are being removed and sent away for proper cleaning and valve setting etc
It's going take, obviously, a few days longer, but thru said it'll come back like new and be ready end of next week
He said he took some pics of the valves with my camera and they were horrendous, so i'll post them up when I'm back and I get a chance to get in there and see my car with the engine out

[edge]

thats a massive undertaking from Audi, well played.

Looking forward to hearing the results.

[sakimano]

to be honest, the intake manifold removal/reinstallation is easily the worst part. The carbon is a slight pain, but the meticulous removal of the IM takes ages and is kind of easy to break the flaps, so it's a bit dodgy. I've watched it done, but haven't done it on my own yet. I'm patiently waiting for a CEL or a good local Shop that proves worthy of the work.

[Graeme4130]

to be honest, the intake manifold removal/reinstallation is easily the worst part. The carbon is a slight pain, but the meticulous removal of the IM takes ages and is kind of easy to break the flaps, so it's a bit dodgy. I've watched it done, but haven't done it on my own yet. I'm patiently waiting for a CEL or a good local shop that proves worthy of the work.

If Audi were to break the flaps on this job, how would I tell when driving ? Would it be obvious ?
Cheers

[P_G]

to be honest, the intake manifold removal/reinstallation is easily the worst part. The carbon is a slight pain, but the meticulous removal of the IM takes ages and is kind of easy to break the flaps, so it's a bit dodgy. I've watched it done, but haven't done it on my own yet. I'm patiently waiting for a CEL or a good local shop that proves worthy of the work.

Really? I don't doubt you on most things Saki but a specialist who has removed IM's before can normally take one off in 30-60 minutes and 60-120 to put it back on which is the hard part. Audi quote 3 hours to take off and another 3 to reinstal. Graeme, what were the reason Audi quoted you to take the engine out? TBH it is a pain to acces it for cleaning which I gather may be their reason but MRC, Revolution and AMD don't remove the engine? I don't suppose it matters as they aren't charging you but just seems a bit odd.

If they broke flaps it may come up as an EPC light if by breaking them it impedes the runner arms from rotating which have sensors on them.

[adsgreen]

the bit that as I understand breaks the most is the plastic arms that move the flaps located at the front of the IM.
If they were broken they wouldn't move and be locked in the closed position. You can test by looking or with Vagcom. Also the engine will throw an EPC light very quickly as soon as you go over 3k rpm when the flaps are commanded to move (each bank of flaps have a rotary position sensor so the ecu knows the position).

[sar]

Quick update ;
Just received a call from Audi saying they've taken the manifolds off and when they've started they've realise fits so bad they're going to be able to do a decent job of it through this way, so the engine's coming out and the heads are being removed and sent away for proper cleaning and valve setting etc
It's going take, obviously, a few days longer, but thru said it'll come back like new and be ready end of next week
He said he took some pics of the valves with my camera and they were horrendous, so i'll post them up when I'm back and I get a chance to get in there and see my car with the engine out

hmmmm why is audi doing this?, i cant imagine audi warranty are paying for the work.
to my knowledge audi uk have never payed for a carbon clean with the engine in situ let alone remove the engine and strip it down to send away for cleaning?.
you cant have just walked in and said i think my cars down on power because of carbon build up because its not as quick as my mates rs4 or i had it on the dyno and it only produced 370bhp or something, they would laugh at you.
there must be more to this story, i guess what im getting at is if your car really is that carboned up that audi feel that its in that bad a state they need to pull the engine to clean it there must be something else wrong with your engine?.
to have that much carbon that audi are willing to pull the engine to clean it is not normal, sure rs4s suffer a little carbon build up but not to the point audi will admit an interest(at least not in the uk).
have audi said what caused the carbon?(bad valve stem oil seals,egr ect), i guess they said it wasn't normal?.
i would just want to make sure any underlying issues are a dealt with.....the carbon will defiantly come back but not to the point that audi would want to pay to remove it.

[maxbhp]

the bit that as I understand breaks the most is the plastic arms that move the flaps located at the front of the IM.
If they were broken they wouldn't move and be locked in the closed position. You can test by looking or with vagcom. Also the engine will throw an EPC light very quickly as soon as you go over 3k rpm when the flaps are commanded to move (each bank of flaps have a rotary position sensor so the ecu knows the position).

With the IM out is their a way to tell if the plastic arms are broken visually?

Or do you just try to slowly move the arm (not the flaps) manually to see if they are still good?

[adsgreen]

Big bit of broken white plastic on the IM

The bit that is weak as I understand it is the white plastic "arms" that connect the two vacuum actuators to the flap runner. You can see them pretty clearly even with the manifold in place when you take off the front bit of carbon trim in the engine bay.

But yes, if you are very very carful you can move them manually with a screw driver.
Vagcom still the best though.

[Graeme4130]

I popped into Swindon Audi today to have a quick look for myself seeing as the in mani's are off
To say the valves were caked would be an understatement, they were absolutely caked
I can see why you'd not want to do the job with the heads in situ
It's quite hard to get a decent pic, but I hope this gIves you a rough idea of how coked up they are ;

The Bad news is that it's going to be another two weeks before I get my car back
On the positive, the sun's finally come out and my TVR just passed its MOT, so I'll still be able to my V8 fix as the allroad courtesy car's not doing it for me

[P_G]

To be honest that's about normal Graeme, no better or worse than other cars I have seen including my own. Pity about taking two weeks though. What are the doing to it, cleaning it with a toothpick?

[Graeme4130]

To be honest that's about normal Graeme, no better or worse than other cars I have seen including my own. Pity about taking two weeks though. What are the doing to it, cleaning it with a toothpick?

No, theyre taking the heads off and sending them away to get cleaned and I think have the valve seats 'refaced'
It's worked out ok as we're off camping to Newquay in the first week of June with kids, bikes etc, so having the courtesy allroad for that means I'm not constantly worrying about the kids damaging the car with bikes and tent stuff, and it'll cost me 50% in fuel too even though allroader is bigger than my RS4
I'll get it back up to Doug at MRC when I pick it up and see how much it improves on its previous poor 355ps

[RSKiwi]

Double post

[RSKiwi]

To be honest that's about normal Graeme, no better or worse than other cars I have seen including my own. Pity about taking two weeks though. What are the doing to it, cleaning it with a toothpick?

Mine looked similar to that after 40kish miles. 2 weeks is still a long time, although having a TVR will help!

[PJC]

You'll be in for a surprise then when you get it back.