MRC Magic

[neckarsulm]

Arthur wind your neck in not getting into this the post.
We already have a post that you bleater on about clean versus dirty and that was boring go and peddle your religion else were

"engine ported, valves cleaned, new filter, plugs, custom remap"

I'd be interested to know which job has had the most impact on performance.

[2manytoys]

He already explained this:

.......

2 is the first run standard

4 is head ported and valves cleaned

1 is remap all with standard exhauts system

can't stop Grinning

On another note, good tuners aren't likely to change settings between runs. You'd feel this power difference easy.

As for chipping in money, I'd chip in some money for someone to go and steal Arthurs Keyboard. Given that he is here now, I'll need to stop posting so this thread doesn't turn into the many others.

Enjoy the car Brooner, it's a real beast when it breaths well again.

[ArthurPE]

that doesn't tell you what the plugs and filter did...
perhaps filter alone is 15HP
plugs another 15
port 20
that leaves 5 for the cleaning...
total 55
another 15 for the ecu...

not sure how you'ld feel the difference:
assume that the 1/4 goes from 13/109 to 12.4/116, that is a g delta of 0.04 g (g = 32.2 ft/sec^2)
a fighter pilot could not detect that...

as far as breaking into my house...why don't you step up?
us cowboys are armed and willing to defend our property
how's your new engine coming along?
did they tell you what was wrong yet?

am I the only one interested to see what speed the ~75HP yields?
simple test, 1/4 miles, 0-200 km/hr, etc.
takes all the guess work out of the picture...
75 HP should make the 3k-8k number <7.2 sec adjusted for temp/wt/etc.
vs stock 8.4 or so...
that's not 'hating', that is just sound logic...

He already explained this:

On another note, good tuners aren't likely to change settings between runs. You'd feel this power difference easy.

As for chipping in money, I'd chip in some money for someone to go and steal Arthurs Keyboard. Given that he is here now, I'll need to stop posting so this thread doesn't turn into the many others.

Enjoy the car Brooner, it's a real beast when it breaths well again.

[pippyrips]

that doesn't tell you what the plugs and filter did...

as far as breaking into my house...why don't you step up?
us cowboys are armed and willing to defend our property

how's your new engine coming along?
did they tell you what was wrong?

am I the only one interested to see what speed the 75HP yields?
simple test, 1/4 miles, 0-200 km/hr, etc.
takes all the guess work out of the picture...
75 HP should make the 3k-8k number <7.5 sec adjusted for temp/wt/etc.
vs stock 8.4 or so...
that's not 'hating', that is just sound logic...

He already explained this:

On another note, good tuners aren't likely to change settings between runs. You'd feel this power difference easy.

As for chipping in money, I'd chip in some money for someone to go and steal Arthurs Keyboard. Given that he is here now, I'll need to stop posting so this thread doesn't turn into the many others.

Enjoy the car Brooner, it's a real beast when it breaths well again.

Didn't Billy run a low 7 something previously or am I going mad?!

[ArthurPE]

he had 2 sets of 3
1 7.7 full tank 42F corrected 8.3
2 7.1 <1/4 tank 35F corrected 7.9
avg 7.4 corrected 8.1

gumball (iirc modded similarly) ran avg 7.5 in 30F temps, adjusted to 8.2 or so...

my uncleaned/unmodded car ran 7.3 in 25F full tank 3 run average
JackS4 ran avg 7.3 w/passenger, iirc no mods, and not cleaned, 3/4 tank, 43F

using mine and Billy's numbers as a baseline, similar temp
7.1 vs 7.3, full tank for me 1/4 for him
assuming my car has 75 less HP, he should run 6.5...in those temps w/much less fuel...
in additon I'm guessing I'm bigger than him and US cars appear to weight 100+ lbs more

[ArthurPE]

all I'm doing is trying to explain my logic, take it or leave it, but don't deride me for doing so...

a 20% power gain without an increase in revs, displacement or compression is hard to fathom...
since T = (Pme x V)/4Pi
Pme ~ Cr x vol eff
and P = T x w (w = 2PI rev/ec or engine speed)

this would imply a 20% increase in the vol eff of the engine (since V, Cr and w stay the same)
I have calculated and graphed the vol eff of this engine based on theoretical volume vs actual (avg of multiple vagcom mass flow measurments from uncleaned, unmodded cars)
it goes >1 at 5500, (flaps?), peaks ~1.05 at 6000, then gradually tails off to 0.98 at 8000 (for reference it's ~0.90 at 3000)
to get 20% more power at 6000 implies a vol eff of 1.2!
that is equivilent to a boost of 3 psi or 0.2 atm
imo this is not possible...

[scaghead]

the only way this would ever get sorted is drag racing different motors and see what is happening in the real world with your own eyes..anyone up for a dis-used airstrip day

[Brooner]

all I'm doing is trying to explain my logic, take it or leave it, but don't deride me for doing so...

All you’re doing is ruining yet another thread and tryng to baffel most people with your caculations if you want to keep on bleetering on about clean v's dirty put it on this thread http://www.rs246.com/index.php?name=PNp ... torder=asc

[neckarsulm]

All you’re doing is ruining yet another thread and tryng to baffel most people with your caculations if you want to keep on bleetering on about clean v's dirty put it on this thread http://www.rs246.com/index.php?name=PNp ... torder=asc

Let me firstly say I don't want to fall out with anyone.

I'm just curious as to what has had the greatest effect to your car Brooner.
When I fix problems on cars, I always try and change 1 thing at a time so I know what's worked, there is nothing more frustrating then changing 2 or more items and not knowing which was the fix. I understand the impracticality of this and the work would prob cost a lot more if the car had be reassembled each time one job was done and tested.

I fixed my air intake flap a month ago and the 5000rpm was back and of course felt naturally quicker
I changed the plugs in my car 2 weeks ago and even on some 95 RON it felt ballsitic afterwards.

The combination of these 2 cheap jobs seemed to have a significant effect to my experienced seat of the pants but I need to get some new data to verify it.

most cars have faulty air flaps and many still are on original plugs up to 60k miles as well as clogged air filters as first change is at 40k or 4 years then I'd imagine a highly tuned engine like ours which requires high revs to produce the extra PS will suffer as a result. By how much I don't know but my new data soon should give a clue

Maybe then I'll consider a trip to MRC too

[P_G]

the only way this would ever get sorted is drag racing different motors and see what is happening in the real world with your own eyes..anyone up for a dis-used airstrip day

To be fair Arthur's original suggestion was a decent one. Brooner, you can't get away from the fact that pre cleaning your peak bhp was 1000 rpm lower than it should be even on the power graphs shown on a stock uncleaned RS4 frm Audi, let alone the work that was done by MRC.

I would be interested to know why it fell off so dramatically so early. Now that could be occluded intake, but it could be powerflap not opening fully, it could be dirty air filter, it could be manifold tumble flaps not opening fully. But after you engine was opened up and cleaned and a new air filter put in then peak bhp is in the range that is should be When I changed from OEM filter to BMC you could feel a difference. Now that air enters and exits my engine more freely my bum dyno (which I will verify with an actual dyno as some stage) makes me feel it pulls better now. That's why I asked you whether any suggestion was made to you on why peak power pre cleaning was at 67-- rpm.

Doug at MRC, any comment on the pre cleaning run? Was there anything abnormal or were there any changes in the r/r conditions pre and post?

Brooner, I believe we are all genuinely happy you car is better for the work but some of us are interested as to what made the difference. As you see from sonny's thread about modifications, there is marked difference in outputs of cars that have supposedly had similar work done; there has to be reasons behind it some perhaps attributable to r/r conditions on the day.

[scaghead]

p-g i was defo not having a pop at arthur..but in a sort of a way stick up for him on this issue. to many people have a pop at him when he puts a different point across on the mrc are magic threads. in a way you can understand were they are comming from, they have been down to mrc shelled out a load of doe,and are as happy as larry then arthur is basically telling them it is a waste of money.. but when you read arthurs points you cant help but think to yourself he has a point.. that was why i suggested the dis-used airstrip day, you would have different motors some cleaned,some mapped etc... i believe most peoples power output problems are air/vacuum related,which when you think back to the rr day last april both olis and macs low output were both air/vacuum related

[dace]

the only way this would ever get sorted is drag racing different motors and see what is happening in the real world with your own eyes..anyone up for a dis-used airstrip day

Vmax is coming up soon. That will sort this out

[P_G]

p-g i was defo not having a pop at arthur..but in a sort of a way stick up for him on this issue. to many people have a pop at him when he puts a different point across on the mrc are magic threads. in a way you can understand were they are comming from, they have been down to mrc shelled out a load of doe,and are as happy as larry then arthur is basically telling them it is a waste of money.. but when you read arthurs points you cant help but think to yourself he has a point.. that was why i suggested the dis-used airstrip day, you would have different motors some cleaned,some mapped etc... i believe most peoples power output problems are air/vacuum related,which when you think back to the rr day last april both olis and macs low output were both air/vacuum related

Soory, just re read and mine was not aimed at you. You are right though, I believe a lot is vacuum related too. Only thing with a V-max is that you are driving your car and the other person theirs, so you don't standardise driving style. Look what happened to CLarkson on TG on the drag race between 911 Turbo Can and R8 V10 Spyder, he lost in both cars because he's useless. That said lap times may not be accurate either because some cars have DRC, DRC+ Hotchkis, KV3's, PSS9's, tyre combos and level of tyre depth. The list goes on.

[Brooner]

there was a boost prblem on the first dyno run leaking hose and sticky vavle so i would say that this would have given the low figures but here is a dyno from star performance that show better figures this was done in the first year i had the car

[sonny]

How about another Rolling Road day, get all cars together on the same RR...flame suit is on guys...lol Im sure SRR would do as a good club discount.

Agree, we should try a airfield day, would be good, just a excuse to meet up and have fun.

You going to fly over to the UK Arthur, we could introduce you to some good British beers? lol