Very Depressing

[Dippy]

BMW will have a new M3(4?) in 2006, these will be 8 cylinder, 400ish bhp and available as an estate.

That sounds interesting (the estate part), 'cos at the moment I prefer the looks of the M3 over the B6 A4.

[donrs4]

thanks to all for the explanations on MOT and MFK etc.
Indeed, we all love this baby. I'm not going to let go so soon. My job location might move soon (well actually it will be geographically closer to home as now I jet around Europe a lot, but it might be a long motorway commute adding dozens of thousands of km per year. Maybe I'll just get a second car for commuting and keep RS4 for pleasuring instead of running it down with high mileage motorway cruising. I want to use it, but I dont wanna "wear it off" quickly with stupid commutes given that this is maybe the last of the great-looking-extra power-estate-puts-a-big-grin-on-my-face-and-keeps-the-missus-happy-model around....

d.

[Joshie]

Reading this and other threads on the subject and taking a completely dispassionate view it seems to me that the only issues here are:
1. The engine of the RS4 may not arrive with a set of turbochargers bolted on.
2. The replacement will lack exclusivity (bodywork / unlimited production).

Many posters have made comments about the new RS4 being better than the old one. So let’s have a (cold honest) look at the current RS4 and award some “Joshie-stars” (out of 5) to evaluate how good the current RS4 really is:

Bodywork: *****
Pros
- fantastic styling, (not just an A4 with spoilers)
- genuinely exclusive
- Avant practicality
Cons
- none

Interior *****
Pros
- wonderful Recaros really support one of the best cabins available anywhere
Cons
- none

Standard Engine ***
Modified Engine: ****
Pros
- incredible power and torque (particularly after modding)
- fantastic sound (after modding)
- fuel consumption
Cons
– significant reliability issues particularly after modding:
(blown turbos, faulty MAF's, air leaks, sticking/broken DV's)

Suspension **+
Pros
- Safe and sure, ESP makes it very difficult to lose control
Cons
- terminal understeer
- dull

Gearbox **+
Pros
- 6 speed
- throw acceptable with SS
Cons
- long throw (in standard form)
- they break especially having to cope with 400+ Lb/ft

Brakes **
Pros
- those great big discs might look good but…
Cons
- fade
- they simply don’t work on a track

I hope that no one takes this the wrong way but in my honest opinion the standard RS4 is only really special because it is exclusive. It is not special dynamically and at worst can be a little dull to drive in standard form.
Modified RS4’s are a different story and are good / very good depending on the level and scope of modifications which need to be very substantial and costly. The very basic required modifications are brakes, suspension, engine remap, cats and exhaust.

So, my point is that I could live with the exclusivity issue if the new RS4 is “better” addressing the issues above (brakes, suspension, and gearbox). If the engine delivers a power to weight ratio superior to 280 BHP/ton (which is what a stage 2 RS4 delivers) then I don't care if the engine is normally aspirated or not. The suggested 420Bhp @1400 kg gives a power to weight ratio of c300 BHP/ton and the car would be awesome.

Surely the challenge for Audi is to produce a new RS4 which actually doesn’t need to be modified to make it a “good” car.

Vey depressing? Not at all.

[S3MUD]

BMW will have a new M3(4?) in 2006, these will be 8 cylinder, 400ish bhp and available as an estate.

That sounds interesting (the estate part), 'cos at the moment I prefer the looks of the M3 over the B6 A4.

AUDI/BMW.... Ummmm Audi!!

[donrs4]

talking about body work, check out what some dude came up with (the 3rd pic without spoiler)
RS4 convertible
Yes, just loads of creativity
No, I'm only half-excited about that type of car

but great that people are out there bouncing around bodywork styling ideas, including our friend Riz the Wizard (Rizard?)


d.

[Conti]

How about an official RS246 letter to Audi.

We, the undersigned, being current RS4 owners (many of us from new) and enthusiasts looking forward to the next RS4, would like to draw your attention to the following:................

How many would sign?

Absolutly sure we would sign, but do you think Audi will really change the look 1 year before it's going to be built. [img]images/graemlins/rocker.gif[/img]
Otherwise, we could write a piece of history! [img]images/graemlins/biggrin3.gif[/img]

Conti

[chrisskelton]

You must appreciate that the next M3 will be 'Bangled' and so may not be as good looking as current A4.

[ianw]

Joshie, I would rate it somewhat different in certain areas, the problem with this car is that it is a compromise, i know most of you guys are into yer trackdays, so you will judge it based on that. so when I rate the suspension engine and brakes I have a different opinion

Standard Engine ****+
pros
for normal driving I missed the earlier torque from smaller turbo's of the S4. But find it great around town or blatting down the autobahn
cons
thirsty

Modified Engine: ****
yet to be corrupted

Suspension ****
Pros
- Safe and sure, best system to drive home on a wet rainy friday night after a week away from home
- managed to get some fun out of four wheel drifts on greasy roads (I know must be driving it wrongly)

Cons
could maybe be a little stiffer

Brakes ****
Pros
- Found them okay for normal road use but....
Cons
- not sure if I was starting getting fade once coming down from the mountains


Just want to add that when I handed the keys of my S4 over to my mate who had just bought mine and he saw the RS4 his comment was "worth an extra 10K for the arches alone "

[rs4imola]

But the great problem of the AUDI is to make a PRETTIER CAR, FASTER, BUT LIGHT and BETTER of the one than my autal RS4! [img]images/graemlins/nodder.gif[/img]
The RS6 is a good car of luxury (tipitronic gearbox [img]images/graemlins/033102bad_1_prv.gif[/img] ) with a strong engine but this does not have the performance of a RS4 is the point![img]images/graemlins/roundeyes.gif[/img]
Audi will have that to make the new better RS4 that current, the not only more modern BUT BETTER In the SET ESPECIALLY PERFORMANCE! [img]images/graemlins/rocker.gif[/img]
It sees the success of the RS4, around Of the WORLD here exactly in the RS246!
Current RS4 is a CLASSIC! [img]images/graemlins/bowdown.gif[/img] [img]images/graemlins/rs4-button.jpg[/img] [img]images/graemlins/bowdown.gif[/img]

[uiltonrs4007]

Audi will have that to make the new better RS4 that current, the not only more modern BUT BETTER In the SET ESPECIALLY PERFORMANCE! [img]images/graemlins/rocker.gif[/img]

I total agree to you! [img]images/graemlins/nodder.gif[/img]
I would not like to change my current RS4 to buy the new RS4, only because is MORE MODERN than the current one! [img]images/graemlins/tung2.gif[/img]
But yes if the new RS4 will have one perfomance more aggressive than the current RS4! [img]images/graemlins/jump3.gif[/img]
I wait that this occurs, therefore the current RS4 is a classic! [img]images/graemlins/notworthy.gif[/img]
cheers

[Dippy]

Surely the challenge for Audi is to produce a new RS4 which actually doesn’t need to be modified to make it a “good” car.

I think the point is that turbocharged cars can be very cheaply modified to increase performance (think about ALL turbocharged cars here for a moment). So we have got into the frame of mind about not thinking about the car that comes out of the factory but about the possibilities.

I actually agree with you that Audi ought to be producing performance cars which don't NEED to be modified. The fact that so many RS4 owners feel the need to uprate the suspension and brakes (and the shifter for God's sake) proved that Audi DID get the RS4 wrong, especially as it is limited edition.

However getting back to thinking just about the engine, consider the idea "what is the best solution Audi can come up with?". As you know, getting 100bhp per litre out of an engine is the rough benchmark for a NA engine. So the 420bhp for a 4.2 V8 is going to be close to the maximum. Sure I'd expect the tuners to be able to add some with a chip and exhaust, but it won't be approaching 500bhp (although I may have to eat those words one day).

Now consider the turbo V6 approach. The 2.7 of the RS4 already produces 380bhp as standard, and it seems relatively easy to tune that to about 450bhp. You can very simply extrapolate that for a 2.9 V6 biturbo to about 410bhp and 480bhp. But don't forget that VAG have a 3.2 V6 too, so maybe they could do a 3.1 to get 430bhp and 510bhp.

Now I also agree about the mass of the car. But again don't forget one thing: The B6 S4's V8 may be no heavier than the B5 S4's V6, but it WILL be heavier than a new V6 which takes advantage of lighter materials. Thus my conclusion:

Audi could make a V6 biturbo RS4 which is both more powerful AND lighter than an NA V8 RS4.

Now tell us that it's not depressing.

The saving grace is that MTM are developing a supercharger for the S4. So a supercharged V8 RS4...

[charlesdash]

I have to agree with Joshie on this. Sorry JR, Philt etc. Surely the issue is whether the new one is 'better' compared to the current 4.

Just cast your minds back to when this all started (at rs4.org) and the substantial number of unhappy new owners. I seem to recall at one point we had more than 10% of UK owners registering complaints against the car, and I seem to remember an incident that I can't mention leading to a Global issue regarding some fairly fundamental parts of the RS4's construction. [img]images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

No one can take away what the RS4 has become (a true classic in the RS2 veign) and what it is for those who still run them, particularly cars properly modded, when IMHO they are one of the finest road cars produced to date.
But to squeal fowl in this way when none of us has seen or really knows what is to come, is complete ostrich behaviour.
If you want to make an impact then those of you who still run them or those who have their names down for the new one and feel strongly enough to post thier comments here, should write a brief and polite note to Audi telling them what you would like to see in terms of the new car. (regardless as to whether you think it will make a difference!)
Surely this should be a celebration of the fact that Audi have recognised the place of the RS4 and decided to dedicate a considerable resource to developing a new one. I for one will be up there in the queue for a new one. If it looks like being a lemon and will suffer from over-supply ala M3 or poor brakes etc, then I'll cancel my order and take my cash else-where.
If everyone had attitudes that are represented by the title of this post, we'd still all be dragging our knuckles on the floor of our caves, not bothering to invent the wheel since it would represent a new and frightening prospect.

Get real guys, accept that you have a fabulous, limited edition sports estate, and that in a couple of years time, as always, there will be a different car available that brings in more customers to the Audi fold to provide yet more cash to invest in producing yet more syntillating and exciting cars. [img]images/graemlins/062802beat_prv.gif[/img]

[JJRS4]

The depressing thing is not that we think that the next RS4 will be a poor replacement (we don't know this), but rather that we currently have one of the greatest cars around. None of us wants to sell ours, whether or not there is a new RS4. If there is a new one however, most of us would have to sell our classics, without knowing whether the new one is up to scratch or not. We won't know this until the deed is done and its too late. Of course, if one could afford to keep the current and buy a new one, the depression does not arise.

If Audi start listening to their enthusiastic customers and let us into their little secrets well before the launch, we may not get quite as depressed.

They know the things that are important to us.

[Conti]

They know the things that are important to us.

Year, but if they know that why don't the built a car we like? [img]images/graemlins/explode.gif[/img]

[kcsun]

I would doubt that any of us will have to sell our cars before buying a new one as we were all allowed to test drive the origional 6 months before production (admitted it was a short drive but the food was good [img]images/graemlins/033102bigblink_1_prv.gif[/img])

kc [img]images/graemlins/s4anogaro.gif[/img]