Spot the difference - Leeds Ring road Signage

[klauster]

Couple of pics to try an highlight to the court the signage issues that were the cause of my speeding offence.

3rd December 2008:



13th May 2009



Since the signs are now being moved I beleive this strengthens my case so have decided I can afford to try Guilty with 'Special Reasons'.

I would love to go NOT Gulity but just cannot justify the cost of such a fight.

Comments welcome

[UNI555]

Where were you caught? Presumably somewhere well past this point? Are there repeater signs after this? Have the signs been moved in the second photo? not easy to tell as it's from a slightly different spot. Good luck with it anyway!

[P_G]

It's pretty much from the same spot bar a few yards, they appear to have trimmed the foliage back on the left side and moved one of the 'Give Way' signs and removed the traffic lights on the left verge?

It could still be contested that you can see the right hand speed indicator sign and there are other markers afterward, depends on how much further down the road you were pulled up and how many you had passed?

[klauster]

there are repeaters but they do not enforce the speed limit

[UNI555]

"It's pretty much from the same spot bar a few yards"

Yes, I can see that now you say it, I was looking at the left hand sign and thinking the camera was at a different spot but it's the sign which has moved of course!

[david7m]

there are repeaters but they do not enforce the speed limit

What do they do then?

Dave

[klauster]

they are reminders only, but as far as Traffic legislation is concerned its the orange boarded/start of a speed limit signs that must be correctly positioned, and both must be visible.

If I were to stand in the outside lane you would only be able to see one sign clearly. Before the signs on the left were relocated slightly, you couldn't see either at all well...

[klauster]

the top pictures are only to illustrate that the signs have been moved. Surely that highlights that the positioning was far from ideal? Or fair?

[UNI555]

The signs at the start of a limit are called gateway signs if I recall correctly from my 'speed awareness' course. The signs certainly aren't very visible from this position, although they would become more so as you get closer, and they might say that you should have plenty of time to see them as you slow for the roundabout. The whole gateway signs/repeater signs thing is a technicality, which isn't to say that it won't help you - it might, but if you are saying to the court that you didn't realise that the limit was 40 because the signs were badly positioned it's then hard to argue that you ignored the repeater signs because you hadn't seen the gateway signs..if you see what I mean. In my opinion the best approach would be along the lines of saying that the limit had changed since you were last on that road and the signs had been badly positioned (and since moved) so you just didn't notice them, and that you deeply regret not paying more attention etc etc. I think if you try saying anything about the repeater signs not being enforcing they will see you as a chancer and come down harder. Just an opinion, and I hope you get a favourable outcome.

[Nige_RS4]

I think you have a case, as if a HGV was blocking the right hand sign you could quite easily miss the blocked view of the left hand sign, especially as you also have traffic lights (now removed/repositioned?), a give way sign (now moved) and other roadsigns (at the roundabout) to negotiate. On top of this, if they have recently changed the speed limit, then there's even more of a reason to let you off?

[UNI555]

But there could be HGV 's in both lanes, or even several end to end, and that could happen anywhere. I think the fact that the signs have been moved since is relevant, as is the fact that it's a new limit, but it's still going to come down to saying a big sorry and giving mitigating factors (maybe whilst saying that you know it's not an excuse). I don't think being let off is likely but I do think points rather than a ban if they are in a good mood!

[klauster]

the limit was 70mph, changed to 40mph, 4 weeks prior to the incident. The approach to the roundabout is 70mph. My arguement will be that it was an honest mistake, I was not delibrately speeding, and that the red - new road layout sign was spray painted out, so I thought the 40mph repeaters had not comg into effect yet.

Another guy got stopped doing 80 on the same stretch of road same day as me, surely someone doing 70 and another doing 80 on the same day, plus whoever else got stopped speeding massively over the speed limit highlights an issue with signage?

[TopBear]

What about posting on Pistonheads and seeing if anyone else has been done here?
Perhaps start a campaign with some local knowledge?

[Boots]

Wife plead guilty by post for hearing earlier this week with mitigating circumstances re the signage. Heard today that (sympathetic) magistrates have adjourned the hearing pending soon to be heard arguments re the signage so might not be quite as bad as first thought (she was doing 62).